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The Birther movement is convinced that President Obama is not a natural-born citizen and hence is constitutionally prohibited from being President.

birtherMost Birthers claim that Obama was born in Kenya, while others think his birth occurred in Indonesia.  Even though Obama has released a copy of his birth certificate showing that he was born on Oahu, these conspiracy theories continue to animate the fanatical right.

What is most surprising about these conspiracy theories is the number of relatively mainstream people willing to associate themselves with the Birthers or at least recognize the issue as a legitimate controversy.  One of CNN’s many reasons for dumping Lou Dobbs was his repeated raising of Birther issues.  More predictably, The Birthers have found audiences on conservative talk radio and conservative web sites such as Free Republic and WorldNetDaily.  The number of people who have serious doubts that Obama was born in the United States is shockingly high.  According to one poll, 28% of Republicans believe Obama was not born in the United States or are unsure.  These numbers, however, ignore an important geographic disparity: doubt about Obama’s place of birth is far higher in the South than anywhere else in the country. In the South, only 47% of respondents said they believe Obama was born in the United States, with 30 % unsure and 23% convinced he’s foreign born.

Many Republican politicians find themselves in an uncomfortable position when it comes to Birther conspiracy theories.  On the one hand, the Birther movement kills the Republicans’ credibility among the vast majority of the population and Republicans.  At the same time,   Rep. Mike Castle, a moderate Republican congressman from Delaware, was blindsided at a rally in July when a near-hysterical woman accused him of ignoring the “truth” that Obama was a citizen of Kenya.  Wanting to pander to the fringe without becoming entirely discredited by the lunatics, many Republicans have opted to align themselves only tangentially with the Birther movement.  For example, Republican congressman of John Campbell of California proposed a bill that would require presidential candidates to prove they are “natural-born citizens.”  On MSNBC, Chris Matthews interviewed Campbell and repeatedly asked him if he believed Obama was a natural-born citizen.  The extreme evasiveness of Campbell’s answers perfectly demonstrates his “wink-wink” strategy of secretly pandering to fringe elements of the conservative movement without having his reputation sullied by outright association.

As a final note to seniors still seeking employment, the Birthers are willing to throw down cash for investigations of Obama’s past.  Neil Sankey, a former member of Scotland Yard, has been hired by Birthers to investigate Obama’s personal history.  I know most CMC alums can’t match Sankey’s background, but perhaps “Topics in Forensic Science” has taught some desperate seniors enough to follow in the footsteps of Jonathan Ames.

249 COMMENTS

    • Where do these people get their information

      Obama has never released a Birth Certificate, and he pays millions to see that he doesnt have to.

      It isnt the Birthers who are crazy, It’s the ignorant followers of the Won.

    • Where do these people get their information

      Obama has never released a Birth Certificate, and he pays millions to see that he doesnt have to.

      It isnt the Birthers who are crazy, It’s the ignorant followers of the Won.

    • Actually, Queens and Kap. are entirely different organizations that are miles apart. See, that’s the issue with BHO supporters: they have to keep lying.

      The same is true of the post itself: BHO hasn’t “released a copy of his birth certificate”. He’s posted a picture of a supposed document on his site, and that’s not a picture of a “certificate” but of a COLB.

      Most of the “facts” about this issue that people have heard are actually distortions or outright lies. See my name’s link for my extensive, completely fact-based coverage of this issue. I’ve repeatedly challenged anyone to find anything false, misleading, or illogical in any of my coverage and no one has been able to do it.

    • Actually, Queens and Kap. are entirely different organizations that are miles apart. See, that’s the issue with BHO supporters: they have to keep lying.

      The same is true of the post itself: BHO hasn’t “released a copy of his birth certificate”. He’s posted a picture of a supposed document on his site, and that’s not a picture of a “certificate” but of a COLB.

      Most of the “facts” about this issue that people have heard are actually distortions or outright lies. See my name’s link for my extensive, completely fact-based coverage of this issue. I’ve repeatedly challenged anyone to find anything false, misleading, or illogical in any of my coverage and no one has been able to do it.

    • http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Um…he provided his birth certificate. That’s what we call a legal document. Short-form birth certificates don’t mention the hospital where the individual was born, because many people are not born in hospitals at all. Forcing anyone to verify the hospital of their birth is a silly, difficult, and useless activity, particularly when you have a legal document verifying the city of their birth.

      Do you spend your day searching the web for Birther references? You really have nothing better to do? My favorite part of the Birther movement: they never offer any evidence; they just ask questions that have insidious implications, and then let the minds of rabid right-wingers go nuts.

    • http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Um…he provided his birth certificate. That’s what we call a legal document. Short-form birth certificates don’t mention the hospital where the individual was born, because many people are not born in hospitals at all. Forcing anyone to verify the hospital of their birth is a silly, difficult, and useless activity, particularly when you have a legal document verifying the city of their birth.

      Do you spend your day searching the web for Birther references? You really have nothing better to do? My favorite part of the Birther movement: they never offer any evidence; they just ask questions that have insidious implications, and then let the minds of rabid right-wingers go nuts.

  1. The President’s birth in Hawaii has been confirmed, repeatedly. Please pick another subject for your conspiracy tendencies. Thank you.

  2. The President’s birth in Hawaii has been confirmed, repeatedly. Please pick another subject for your conspiracy tendencies. Thank you.

  3. The funniest aspect of this movement is they ignore past presidential history, and the fact that John Mccain wasn’t “naturally born” in the US (born in panama, outside of the canal zone). You’d think if George Romney, Barry Goldwater, and Mccain would have had birther movements against their legitimacy, but for whatever reason, birthers seem to only care when democrat might get elected.

  4. The funniest aspect of this movement is they ignore past presidential history, and the fact that John Mccain wasn’t “naturally born” in the US (born in panama, outside of the canal zone). You’d think if George Romney, Barry Goldwater, and Mccain would have had birther movements against their legitimacy, but for whatever reason, birthers seem to only care when democrat might get elected.

  5. First, John McCain was NOT eligible to be the POTUS regardless of what the idiot Congress said.

    Second, during his run for the senate, Barry said he was born in Kenya. So which is it?

    Third, Barry told us he wasn’t eligible but ‘we’ didn’t listen. {semiquote} Daddy was a Kenyan national and a British subject {/semiquote}

    Fourth, relative to #3, the founding fathers had a reason for including the “natural born citizen” clause in the list of presidential qualifications. They had just fought a war against BRITAIN and wanted to insure that the president had no foreign entanglements.

    Now they knew what that clause (nbc) meant but didn’t define it for us. So beyond their obvious intention mentioned above, how do we know. We know because they used a body of work during their deliberations called the Law of Nations. We know this because they mentioned it by name in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). That reference defines a natural born citizen as a person who was a.) born on the soil (U.S.) and b.) was born of parentS who are citizenS (plural).

    In my opinion, that is CASE CLOSED! What I don’t understand is why all branches of the central government, the Electoral College and the Attorney’s General of the 50 states totally ignored the issue even though people were screaming about it LONG before the election.

  6. First, John McCain was NOT eligible to be the POTUS regardless of what the idiot Congress said.

    Second, during his run for the senate, Barry said he was born in Kenya. So which is it?

    Third, Barry told us he wasn’t eligible but ‘we’ didn’t listen. {semiquote} Daddy was a Kenyan national and a British subject {/semiquote}

    Fourth, relative to #3, the founding fathers had a reason for including the “natural born citizen” clause in the list of presidential qualifications. They had just fought a war against BRITAIN and wanted to insure that the president had no foreign entanglements.

    Now they knew what that clause (nbc) meant but didn’t define it for us. So beyond their obvious intention mentioned above, how do we know. We know because they used a body of work during their deliberations called the Law of Nations. We know this because they mentioned it by name in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). That reference defines a natural born citizen as a person who was a.) born on the soil (U.S.) and b.) was born of parentS who are citizenS (plural).

    In my opinion, that is CASE CLOSED! What I don’t understand is why all branches of the central government, the Electoral College and the Attorney’s General of the 50 states totally ignored the issue even though people were screaming about it LONG before the election.

  7. Charlie, you’re only mocking the movement to try to aid the conspiracy to cover up the truth. The proof isn’t there, in fact, quite the contrary. The scariest thing is that it might be too late to stop him…

  8. Charlie, you’re only mocking the movement to try to aid the conspiracy to cover up the truth. The proof isn’t there, in fact, quite the contrary. The scariest thing is that it might be too late to stop him…

  9. I think there’s much too much made of the birth certificate stuff, but I think it speaks to a larger truth about just how little we know about the president’s past before he decided to grace — or is it shame? — the country with his electoral run.

    He refuses to release his grades, his LSAT score, or the radical classes he most definitely took, probably because he was admitted to HLS under affirmative action.

    Of course he’s more than willing to reveal Malia’s grades and to have his cronies spend their time unearthing every little detail about the lives of his opponents. (See Jack Ryan’s bid.)

    Also, I’ve heard that part of the reason he isn’t releasing information is that he applied to Occidental as an international student. That would be, err, rather difficult for him now that he’s president.

  10. I think there’s much too much made of the birth certificate stuff, but I think it speaks to a larger truth about just how little we know about the president’s past before he decided to grace — or is it shame? — the country with his electoral run.

    He refuses to release his grades, his LSAT score, or the radical classes he most definitely took, probably because he was admitted to HLS under affirmative action.

    Of course he’s more than willing to reveal Malia’s grades and to have his cronies spend their time unearthing every little detail about the lives of his opponents. (See Jack Ryan’s bid.)

    Also, I’ve heard that part of the reason he isn’t releasing information is that he applied to Occidental as an international student. That would be, err, rather difficult for him now that he’s president.

  11. Obama’s Hawain Birth has not been proven. Please state the hospital Obama was born in and doctor who delivered him. Addition, the laws in 1961 allowed foreign born babies to claim a Hawain Birth. It is theorized that Obama was born in Kenya but his birth was registered as being born in Hawaii. Further, Obama’s COLB (Which is not a birth certificate) is meaningless because we do not know how Obama’s COLB is derived. Neither Obama nor the State of Hawaii has revealed the derivation of Obama COLB. The vital records could be nothing more than a statement from the grandmother that Obama was born in Hawaii when in fact he was born in Kenya.

  12. Obama’s Hawain Birth has not been proven. Please state the hospital Obama was born in and doctor who delivered him. Addition, the laws in 1961 allowed foreign born babies to claim a Hawain Birth. It is theorized that Obama was born in Kenya but his birth was registered as being born in Hawaii. Further, Obama’s COLB (Which is not a birth certificate) is meaningless because we do not know how Obama’s COLB is derived. Neither Obama nor the State of Hawaii has revealed the derivation of Obama COLB. The vital records could be nothing more than a statement from the grandmother that Obama was born in Hawaii when in fact he was born in Kenya.

  13. “We know because they used a body of work during their deliberations called the Law of Nations.”

    Birther stupidity.
    Swiss philosophy is not U.S. law. And the version of Law of Nations referred to wasn’t published when the Constitution was written. Oops.
    In 1898, in the case of U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the Supreme Court looked into the meaning of “natural born” in the common law and concluded that a non-citizen’s mere presence in the U.S. is enough to make their child, if born here, a natural-born citizen.
    Most importantly, our President has never renounced his U.S. citizenship. He is a natural born U.S. citizen and is eligible to win the office of U.S. President again. Which he will, easily.

    All branches of the central government, the Electoral College and the Attorney’s General of the 50 states are not chiropteran excrement psychotic like all birfoons.

    • amen!

      The only reference to “law of nations” in article 1 section 8 is: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations.

      in case you can’t understand that prsmith, it means crimes against our laws, not a text by de Vattel

  14. “We know because they used a body of work during their deliberations called the Law of Nations.”

    Birther stupidity.
    Swiss philosophy is not U.S. law. And the version of Law of Nations referred to wasn’t published when the Constitution was written. Oops.
    In 1898, in the case of U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, the Supreme Court looked into the meaning of “natural born” in the common law and concluded that a non-citizen’s mere presence in the U.S. is enough to make their child, if born here, a natural-born citizen.
    Most importantly, our President has never renounced his U.S. citizenship. He is a natural born U.S. citizen and is eligible to win the office of U.S. President again. Which he will, easily.

    All branches of the central government, the Electoral College and the Attorney’s General of the 50 states are not chiropteran excrement psychotic like all birfoons.

    • amen!

      The only reference to “law of nations” in article 1 section 8 is: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations.

      in case you can’t understand that prsmith, it means crimes against our laws, not a text by de Vattel

  15. “Please state the hospital Obama was born in and doctor who delivered him.”

    Irrelevant, paranoid B.S. Show me the part of the Constitution that demands a hospital and doctor’s name.

    While you’re at it, tell us the name of the hospital for every President’s birth before Jimmy Carter.

    Deranged birther paranoia is irrelevant.
    People in actual positions of authority are relevant.

    DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
    News Release
    LINDA LINGLE
    GOVERNOR
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
    DIRECTOR
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
    STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
    “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
    “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
    “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
    ###

    • HI state law allowed those born outside HI – including those born in foreign countries – to obtain valid certs. The law was passed in 1981 (IIRC), but it was retroactive.

      That means that her statement (from 10/31/08) didn’t necessarily mean he was born there; he could have been born outside HI and taken advantage of that law and still have a valid cert on file.

      She did release a new statement in which she said he was born there, but that was only in July. And, she also made a legal claim that she’s not qualified to make, and then rhetorically stalked off in a huff.

  16. Children not born in Hawaii can get a birth document from the state. But it won’t say they were born in Hawaii, as Obama’s does.

    “If you were born in Bali, for example, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali,” Janice Okubo, the director of communications for the state Department of Health, told the Washington Independent’s David Weigel recently. “You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.”

    • But what if Obama’s grandmother lied and signed a piece of paper saying Obama was born without any witnesses to get his birth certificate? If there is no proof to confirm that Obama was born at the hospital there was never a complete vetting of Obama to determine his qualification to hold that office. That is why people are still insisting on production of the long form.

  17. This issue has been and continues to be a massive fraud or gross negligence on the part of the Democratic National Committee. Look for one statement that indicates they vetted Obama before his name was placed on the primary. It does not exist, and in fact Pelosi signed two statements to have Obama’s name placed on the ballot, and the only difference between the two is that one took out the language that said Obama was qualified for the office. Guess which one they used.

    The point of the Hawaiian birth certificate is that we all know the original long form is with the Hawaiian Health Department. They have announced they are holding it. All it takes is for Obama to sign a release which he refuses to do. The point about the hospital is that Obama has stated on the record that he was born at a specific hospital in Hawaii. That information is only on the form that the State of Hawaii is holding, and not the form that Obama produced. In Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth it was easy to commit fraud and get a birth certificate for a baby. A Hawaiian resident only had to sign a piece of paper saying the baby was born at home. So, does Obama’s long form confirm what he has stated that he was born at a specific hospital, or is it a form that states he was born at home with no witnesses. If it is the former than proper vetting procedure would be to gather the evidence that confirms the birth.

    While you are at it google “Obama passport file cleansed”. What is the status of that investigation?

  18. This issue has been and continues to be a massive fraud or gross negligence on the part of the Democratic National Committee. Look for one statement that indicates they vetted Obama before his name was placed on the primary. It does not exist, and in fact Pelosi signed two statements to have Obama’s name placed on the ballot, and the only difference between the two is that one took out the language that said Obama was qualified for the office. Guess which one they used.

    The point of the Hawaiian birth certificate is that we all know the original long form is with the Hawaiian Health Department. They have announced they are holding it. All it takes is for Obama to sign a release which he refuses to do. The point about the hospital is that Obama has stated on the record that he was born at a specific hospital in Hawaii. That information is only on the form that the State of Hawaii is holding, and not the form that Obama produced. In Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth it was easy to commit fraud and get a birth certificate for a baby. A Hawaiian resident only had to sign a piece of paper saying the baby was born at home. So, does Obama’s long form confirm what he has stated that he was born at a specific hospital, or is it a form that states he was born at home with no witnesses. If it is the former than proper vetting procedure would be to gather the evidence that confirms the birth.

    While you are at it google “Obama passport file cleansed”. What is the status of that investigation?

  19. “Also, I’ve heard that part of the reason he isn’t releasing information is that he applied to Occidental as an international student. That would be, err, rather difficult for him now that he’s president.”

    It was an April Fool’s joke posted on the internet. Fool.

  20. But what if Obama’s grandmother lied and signed a piece of paper saying Obama was born without any witnesses to get his birth certificate? If there is no proof to confirm that Obama was born at the hospital there was never a complete vetting of Obama to determine his qualification to hold that office. That is why people are still insisting on production of the long form.

  21. Wong Kim Ark was never declared a “Natural Born” citizen only a US citizen at birth. The court recognized that Wong Kim Ark was as a much a “Natural Born” citizen in rights. But SCOTUS clearly established that Wong Kim Ark was NOT a “Natural Born” Citizen.

    From the Decision:

    The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle. [p666]

    The court concluded that the child of an alien is a “Natural Born” citizen in RIGHTS but NOT actually “Natural Born” citizen.

  22. “In Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth it was easy to commit fraud and get a birth certificate for a baby.”

    No, it wasn’t. You have no credible evidence which amounts to nothing more than spouting lies.
    There is only one well known case of fraud many years earlier when Hawaii was a territory.

  23. Wong Kim Ark was never declared a “Natural Born” citizen only a US citizen at birth. The court recognized that Wong Kim Ark was as a much a “Natural Born” citizen in rights. But SCOTUS clearly established that Wong Kim Ark was NOT a “Natural Born” Citizen.

    From the Decision:

    The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle. [p666]

    The court concluded that the child of an alien is a “Natural Born” citizen in RIGHTS but NOT actually “Natural Born” citizen.

  24. Charlie, I think you should have avoided mentioning “WorldNetDaily” by name. Now you’ve attracted the crazies who have it on their Google Alert.

    Sigh.

  25. Charlie, I think you should have avoided mentioning “WorldNetDaily” by name. Now you’ve attracted the crazies who have it on their Google Alert.

    Sigh.

  26. You are right Pete. We don’t know the derivation of Obama’s COLB. It could be based on the grandmother’s statement. She could have lied to get Obama US Citizenship. This is at least plausible since we have yet to see any type of real tangible proof that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii. Certiainly a signature from a doctor or midwife would be proof but that has not been provided. It is also plausible due to complete absense of persons coming forward to testfiy that Obama was born in the hospital. Obama is only 48 years old. It’s hard to believe that all person that were present around Obama’s birth would be dead.

  27. You are right Pete. We don’t know the derivation of Obama’s COLB. It could be based on the grandmother’s statement. She could have lied to get Obama US Citizenship. This is at least plausible since we have yet to see any type of real tangible proof that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii. Certiainly a signature from a doctor or midwife would be proof but that has not been provided. It is also plausible due to complete absense of persons coming forward to testfiy that Obama was born in the hospital. Obama is only 48 years old. It’s hard to believe that all person that were present around Obama’s birth would be dead.

  28. You shouldn’t of published this article before finals. Just reading these comments makes me feel stupid.

    Personally, I’m more interested in the discussion of whether or not Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990. Personally, I don’t think he did it. In fact, all of the logical reason so far show that he didn’t. …but how come he hasn’t come forth and proven that he hasn’t?

    Why has http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/ been taken down? Is there something he doesn’t want us to see?

    Again, he probably didn’t do it. But why doesn’t he tell us he didn’t? If we don’t know for sure, it might be too late to stop him…”

    –I threw those ellipses in for you Jimmy. They’re really great when you don’t actually know what you’re talking about…

    • I heard it was taken down because, while it was nothing but a ridiculous claim made up by a small liberal arts college in Pennsylvania, too many people started believing it. To the point where Beck was federally investigated. Turns out Beck doesn’t even have a penis, how could he have raped anyone? It’s stories like these that make me really sick.

  29. You shouldn’t of published this article before finals. Just reading these comments makes me feel stupid.

    Personally, I’m more interested in the discussion of whether or not Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990. Personally, I don’t think he did it. In fact, all of the logical reason so far show that he didn’t. …but how come he hasn’t come forth and proven that he hasn’t?

    Why has http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/ been taken down? Is there something he doesn’t want us to see?

    Again, he probably didn’t do it. But why doesn’t he tell us he didn’t? If we don’t know for sure, it might be too late to stop him…”

    –I threw those ellipses in for you Jimmy. They’re really great when you don’t actually know what you’re talking about…

    • I heard it was taken down because, while it was nothing but a ridiculous claim made up by a small liberal arts college in Pennsylvania, too many people started believing it. To the point where Beck was federally investigated. Turns out Beck doesn’t even have a penis, how could he have raped anyone? It’s stories like these that make me really sick.

  30. “Children not born in Hawaii can get a birth document from the state. But it won’t say they were born in Hawaii, as Obama’s does.”

    Hogwash! That’s exactly what it will say if that’s what was reported at the time. Children born “at home” without benefit of doctor or midwife were still born in Hawaii if that’s what the parents/grandparents/etc. reported at the time.

  31. “Children not born in Hawaii can get a birth document from the state. But it won’t say they were born in Hawaii, as Obama’s does.”

    Hogwash! That’s exactly what it will say if that’s what was reported at the time. Children born “at home” without benefit of doctor or midwife were still born in Hawaii if that’s what the parents/grandparents/etc. reported at the time.

  32. “Also, I’ve heard that part of the reason he isn’t releasing information is that he applied to Occidental as an international student. That would be, err, rather difficult for him now that he’s president.”

    It was an April Fool’s joke posted on the internet. Fool.
    —————-

    Actually, we don’t know that yet since we can’t see the records. Barry is clearly hiding stuff and eventually it WILL come out – hopefully sooner rather than later!

  33. “Also, I’ve heard that part of the reason he isn’t releasing information is that he applied to Occidental as an international student. That would be, err, rather difficult for him now that he’s president.”

    It was an April Fool’s joke posted on the internet. Fool.
    —————-

    Actually, we don’t know that yet since we can’t see the records. Barry is clearly hiding stuff and eventually it WILL come out – hopefully sooner rather than later!

  34. Yes, Obama is hiding stuff. A Police Officer was murdered to keep the lid on the contents of Obama’s passports.

  35. Yes, Obama is hiding stuff. A Police Officer was murdered to keep the lid on the contents of Obama’s passports.

  36. ” And the version of Law of Nations referred to wasn’t published when the Constitution was written”

    Really? What version would that be? Nobody mentioned the Swiss or Vattel? So which is the version mentioned in the Constitution?

    • There isn’t a version referred to in the constitution – it says “offenses against the law of nations” its not referring to an actual document genius. Why don’t you try reading the constitution that you so gleefully try to cite

  37. ” And the version of Law of Nations referred to wasn’t published when the Constitution was written”

    Really? What version would that be? Nobody mentioned the Swiss or Vattel? So which is the version mentioned in the Constitution?

    • There isn’t a version referred to in the constitution – it says “offenses against the law of nations” its not referring to an actual document genius. Why don’t you try reading the constitution that you so gleefully try to cite

  38. An important case established what a “Natural Born” citizen is:

    Minor Vs. Happersett:

    “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first”

  39. An important case established what a “Natural Born” citizen is:

    Minor Vs. Happersett:

    “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first”

  40. Lol. Just look at these *EF*-fing nutcases you’ve brought onto the forums from worldnet. Seriously, some of these people need to screw themselves and get a life rather than commenting on a college forum they don’t even go to. Jeez.

  41. Lol. Just look at these *EF*-fing nutcases you’ve brought onto the forums from worldnet. Seriously, some of these people need to screw themselves and get a life rather than commenting on a college forum they don’t even go to. Jeez.

  42. Obama is a fraud. Several people have testified he was born in Kenya.

    His father was British; Barack can’t be a “natural born citizen.”

    Nobody hides something unless they have something to hide. Let’s see his long form birth certificate. An online fake doesn’t cut it.

    Obama is as fake a global warming temperature records.

  43. Obama is a fraud. Several people have testified he was born in Kenya.

    His father was British; Barack can’t be a “natural born citizen.”

    Nobody hides something unless they have something to hide. Let’s see his long form birth certificate. An online fake doesn’t cut it.

    Obama is as fake a global warming temperature records.

  44. Don’t Forget – Mark Your Money Bills Today!

    “OBAMA! SHOW YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE!”

  45. “I am visited weekly by aliens from the Alpha Centauri system. Prove me wrong.”

    To whom? You? What an obvious waste of time that would be.

  46. “I am visited weekly by aliens from the Alpha Centauri system. Prove me wrong.”

    To whom? You? What an obvious waste of time that would be.

  47. The problem is Obama, he fails to produce the documents to prove he is eligible to hold office.
    It’s not the job of the birthers to prove Obama fails to meet the qualifications. Minority students are looking for a role model, Obama needs to show them his grades in college, law school.

  48. The problem is Obama, he fails to produce the documents to prove he is eligible to hold office.
    It’s not the job of the birthers to prove Obama fails to meet the qualifications. Minority students are looking for a role model, Obama needs to show them his grades in college, law school.

  49. Okay, can we keep the WorldNetDaily whack-jobs away? I feel like my college has been inundated with every nutcase in the country.

    Dear Crazy Birther People,
    You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause. You will not sway a single person here to believe your poorly-reasoned, paranoid, hate-driven lies. Try another of your Google Alert hits; maybe there are some morons there.

    XOXO,
    Someone Who is Not an Insanely Stupid Jackass

  50. Okay, can we keep the WorldNetDaily whack-jobs away? I feel like my college has been inundated with every nutcase in the country.

    Dear Crazy Birther People,
    You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause. You will not sway a single person here to believe your poorly-reasoned, paranoid, hate-driven lies. Try another of your Google Alert hits; maybe there are some morons there.

    XOXO,
    Someone Who is Not an Insanely Stupid Jackass

  51. it doesn’t matter if he was born in the damn White House! he can’t qualify as a “natural born citizen” according to the constitution with a british father.

    end of debate.

  52. it doesn’t matter if he was born in the damn White House! he can’t qualify as a “natural born citizen” according to the constitution with a british father.

    end of debate.

  53. He was born with, and admitted on his F.T.S. web site, British citizenship. His foreign national father passed that British citizenship to him at birth. At best (for him) he was born a dual national. He never was, and can never be, a Natural Born Citizen. It’s why he continues to this day to fight the lawsuits instead of simply releasing his college and birth records.

  54. He was born with, and admitted on his F.T.S. web site, British citizenship. His foreign national father passed that British citizenship to him at birth. At best (for him) he was born a dual national. He never was, and can never be, a Natural Born Citizen. It’s why he continues to this day to fight the lawsuits instead of simply releasing his college and birth records.

  55. How can we hold others to high standards of truth and transparency, when we don’t hold ourselves or our own to them?

    Do you know the legal and actual differences in a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth?
    HINT: Take a look at yours. Ask your Mom or dad for the original or a certified copy of it. Both of these will have a raised seal and have a colored stamp on them. There will also be, at least, the Doctor’s name, the hospital’s name, and the name of a witness on them.

    I don’t pretend to know where he was born, but I do know his is not a legal Birth Certificate.

    What, really, is the harm in showing his actual Birth Certificate? He could, easily, shut them up by showing it (and make them all look like fools), and we can all get back to the issues that really matter.

  56. How can we hold others to high standards of truth and transparency, when we don’t hold ourselves or our own to them?

    Do you know the legal and actual differences in a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth?
    HINT: Take a look at yours. Ask your Mom or dad for the original or a certified copy of it. Both of these will have a raised seal and have a colored stamp on them. There will also be, at least, the Doctor’s name, the hospital’s name, and the name of a witness on them.

    I don’t pretend to know where he was born, but I do know his is not a legal Birth Certificate.

    What, really, is the harm in showing his actual Birth Certificate? He could, easily, shut them up by showing it (and make them all look like fools), and we can all get back to the issues that really matter.

  57. Sunday Standard
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Sunday, June 27, 2004

    Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    ———-

    Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

    The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once-promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

    Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife, Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.

    Barrack Obama

    “It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could not take place if I remain in the race,” Ryan, 44, said in a statement. “What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign – the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of politics I refuse to play.”

    Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was “truly outrageous” that the Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

    The Republican choice will become an instant underdog in the campaign for the seat of retiring Republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, since Obama held a wide lead even before the scandal broke.

    “I feel for him actually,” Obama told a Chicago TV station. “What he’s gone through over the last three days I think is something you wouldn’t wish on anybody.”

    The Republican state committee must now choose a replacement for Ryan, who had won in the primaries against seven contenders. Its task is complicated by the fact that Obama holds a comfortable lead in the polls and is widely regarded as a rising Democratic star.

    The chairwoman of the Illinois Republican Party, Judy Topinka, said at a news conference, after Ryan withdrew, that Republicans would probably take several weeks to settle on a new candidate.

    “Obviously, this is a bad week for our party and our state,” she said.

    As recently as Thursday, spokesmen for the Ryan campaign still insisted that Ryan would remain in the race. Ryan had defended himself saying, “There’s no breaking of any laws. There’s no breaking of any marriage laws. There’s no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere.”

    —AP

  58. You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause.

    LOL, college kids…is there anything they don’t know?!

  59. Sunday Standard
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Sunday, June 27, 2004

    Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    ———-

    Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

    The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once-promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

    Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife, Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.

    Barrack Obama

    “It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could not take place if I remain in the race,” Ryan, 44, said in a statement. “What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign – the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of politics I refuse to play.”

    Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was “truly outrageous” that the Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

    The Republican choice will become an instant underdog in the campaign for the seat of retiring Republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, since Obama held a wide lead even before the scandal broke.

    “I feel for him actually,” Obama told a Chicago TV station. “What he’s gone through over the last three days I think is something you wouldn’t wish on anybody.”

    The Republican state committee must now choose a replacement for Ryan, who had won in the primaries against seven contenders. Its task is complicated by the fact that Obama holds a comfortable lead in the polls and is widely regarded as a rising Democratic star.

    The chairwoman of the Illinois Republican Party, Judy Topinka, said at a news conference, after Ryan withdrew, that Republicans would probably take several weeks to settle on a new candidate.

    “Obviously, this is a bad week for our party and our state,” she said.

    As recently as Thursday, spokesmen for the Ryan campaign still insisted that Ryan would remain in the race. Ryan had defended himself saying, “There’s no breaking of any laws. There’s no breaking of any marriage laws. There’s no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere.”

    —AP

  60. You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause.

    LOL, college kids…is there anything they don’t know?!

  61. Sorry kid you obiviously don’t know the difference betweeen a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth. You have to be born in Hawaii for a birth certificate, anyone can get a certificate of live birth. Consdiering there is video of Obama running for his Senate seat claining to be born in Kenya it is no wonder that many of us want to know exactly when it was he was lying!

  62. Sorry kid you obiviously don’t know the difference betweeen a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth. You have to be born in Hawaii for a birth certificate, anyone can get a certificate of live birth. Consdiering there is video of Obama running for his Senate seat claining to be born in Kenya it is no wonder that many of us want to know exactly when it was he was lying!

  63. “You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause.”

    LOL! I have an IQ of 163 I don’t think your little rinky dink college I’d have been interested in.Let me guess you got in with a 3.2 GPA right?

    • Look, if you want to believe in something that has been disproved thousands of time, that’s your right. You’re an idiot, but even idiots sadly have rights.

      But don’t visit the website of a college publication to: a) spread lies, and b) insult said college. It’s tactless and ineffective. Not a damn person here cares what your IQ is or what ill-informed misconceptions you have about our institution (the second most selective liberal arts college in the country, though you will probably discount that fact on account of it having “liberal” in the title). Students here worked hard to get here, and they don’t need anonymous blowhards with zero credibility attacking their intelligence.

      Just go away.

      • Absolutely nothing has been proved yet. The COLBs (PLURAL!) are proven forgeries. Hawaii’s records prove nothing since they were likely ‘reported’ by parents or grandparents who desperately wished for a U.S. born baby rather than a Kenyan national born with British subjugation (thus the need to see a certified copy of the original hospital record filed with the state). The newspaper announcements prove nothing since they were either follow-up ads by parents/grandparents or were automatically generated from the verbal report discussed above. Pelosi signed TWO copies of the DNC certification letter, one with a clause indicating Constitutional eligibility and the other, which went to all states EXCEPT Hawaii, without that clause. Barry SAID that he was born in Kenya during his Illinois senate run. Kenyan relatives have submitted sworn affidavits indicating that they attended the birth of Barack H. Obama, Jr. IN KENYA of a mother who was too young at the time to even give U.S. citizenship much less “natural born citizen” status.

        So where is your “proof”? What do you have to show

  64. “You are posting comments on the forum of Claremont McKenna College, a place where there are qualifications for admission that would prevent the matriculation of any person who might be even remotely sympathetic to your cause.”

    LOL! I have an IQ of 163 I don’t think your little rinky dink college I’d have been interested in.Let me guess you got in with a 3.2 GPA right?

    • Look, if you want to believe in something that has been disproved thousands of time, that’s your right. You’re an idiot, but even idiots sadly have rights.

      But don’t visit the website of a college publication to: a) spread lies, and b) insult said college. It’s tactless and ineffective. Not a damn person here cares what your IQ is or what ill-informed misconceptions you have about our institution (the second most selective liberal arts college in the country, though you will probably discount that fact on account of it having “liberal” in the title). Students here worked hard to get here, and they don’t need anonymous blowhards with zero credibility attacking their intelligence.

      Just go away.

      • Absolutely nothing has been proved yet. The COLBs (PLURAL!) are proven forgeries. Hawaii’s records prove nothing since they were likely ‘reported’ by parents or grandparents who desperately wished for a U.S. born baby rather than a Kenyan national born with British subjugation (thus the need to see a certified copy of the original hospital record filed with the state). The newspaper announcements prove nothing since they were either follow-up ads by parents/grandparents or were automatically generated from the verbal report discussed above. Pelosi signed TWO copies of the DNC certification letter, one with a clause indicating Constitutional eligibility and the other, which went to all states EXCEPT Hawaii, without that clause. Barry SAID that he was born in Kenya during his Illinois senate run. Kenyan relatives have submitted sworn affidavits indicating that they attended the birth of Barack H. Obama, Jr. IN KENYA of a mother who was too young at the time to even give U.S. citizenship much less “natural born citizen” status.

        So where is your “proof”? What do you have to show

  65. If the original, long-form birth certificate has been released, why has 0 spent more than 1.5 million dollars in legal fees to fight every court action seeking access to his birth certificate?

    I don’t know where he was born.

    But nobody fights that hard to keep something out of sight unless there is something embarrassing in the document.

    Maybe it isn’t his place of birth. But it is something worth close to 2 mil. to keep out of sight of the American public.

    I am curious about it, and I can’t understand why you are not curious as well.

    While we are at it, I would like also to see what courses he took in school and who his professors were and what his grades were.

    Strange, isn’t it, that we know so little about this guy?

    Let’s have some of his famous transparency.

  66. If the original, long-form birth certificate has been released, why has 0 spent more than 1.5 million dollars in legal fees to fight every court action seeking access to his birth certificate?

    I don’t know where he was born.

    But nobody fights that hard to keep something out of sight unless there is something embarrassing in the document.

    Maybe it isn’t his place of birth. But it is something worth close to 2 mil. to keep out of sight of the American public.

    I am curious about it, and I can’t understand why you are not curious as well.

    While we are at it, I would like also to see what courses he took in school and who his professors were and what his grades were.

    Strange, isn’t it, that we know so little about this guy?

    Let’s have some of his famous transparency.

  67. You college kids are so funny! That’s what happens when you get your news watching John Stewart while stoned. No wonder the majority of 18-29 year olds still support Obama. You believe him because you WANT to believe him, instead of asking the tough questions like how did he travel to Pakistan in 1980 on an U.S. passport? Or why he has spend over $1.5 million to prevent the release of his long form BC? Don’t you at all wonder what could be so damning on that form?

  68. You college kids are so funny! That’s what happens when you get your news watching John Stewart while stoned. No wonder the majority of 18-29 year olds still support Obama. You believe him because you WANT to believe him, instead of asking the tough questions like how did he travel to Pakistan in 1980 on an U.S. passport? Or why he has spend over $1.5 million to prevent the release of his long form BC? Don’t you at all wonder what could be so damning on that form?

  69. HI state law allowed those born outside HI – including those born in foreign countries – to obtain valid certs. The law was passed in 1981 (IIRC), but it was retroactive.

    That means that her statement (from 10/31/08) didn’t necessarily mean he was born there; he could have been born outside HI and taken advantage of that law and still have a valid cert on file.

    She did release a new statement in which she said he was born there, but that was only in July. And, she also made a legal claim that she’s not qualified to make, and then rhetorically stalked off in a huff.

  70. Oh the folly of youth and the stupidity of liberals and leftists.

    I guess you all still believe that man is causing global warming and refuse to acknowledge the FRAUD that has taken place by Al Gore, the IPCC and leftist newspapers and media organizations.

    If you are so sure the Messiah is eligible, then why don’t you demand a full release of all his records from Hawaii, his schools etc. and compare those against the Constitutionally requirement of being a natural born citizen rather than just calling those who bring up inconvenient FACTS names.
    Show us the great unwashed masses how foolish and backward we really are.

    Angus Galt

  71. Oh the folly of youth and the stupidity of liberals and leftists.

    I guess you all still believe that man is causing global warming and refuse to acknowledge the FRAUD that has taken place by Al Gore, the IPCC and leftist newspapers and media organizations.

    If you are so sure the Messiah is eligible, then why don’t you demand a full release of all his records from Hawaii, his schools etc. and compare those against the Constitutionally requirement of being a natural born citizen rather than just calling those who bring up inconvenient FACTS names.
    Show us the great unwashed masses how foolish and backward we really are.

    Angus Galt

  72. Obama’s sister says one hospital, Obama says another, his grandmother says Kenya. Numerous papers reported he was Kenyan born when he was running for the senate.

    Obama has never showed his Birth certificate. If he did, WHY is his lawyers in court fighting the release of something he already released??

    The fraud he posted on the web is exactly what it is. A fraud.

  73. Obama’s sister says one hospital, Obama says another, his grandmother says Kenya. Numerous papers reported he was Kenyan born when he was running for the senate.

    Obama has never showed his Birth certificate. If he did, WHY is his lawyers in court fighting the release of something he already released??

    The fraud he posted on the web is exactly what it is. A fraud.

  74. My favorite document about Barack Obama’s place of birth is this one, his registration at Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, photographed by the AP in 2007. This document contains information that makes both his friends and enemies ignore it. His enemies must ignore it because it says he was born in Honolulu, but his friend must also ignore it because it lists his religion as “Islam”.

    While I believe he was born in Honolulu, I think it’s a fair question to ask since it’s a constitutional requirement for president, just like it was fair to ask the same question about McCain, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. There should be some legal authority that actually verifies that a President is eligible since several states have allowed naturalized citizens from third parties to be placed on the presidential ballot.

    • “There should be some legal authority that actually verifies that a President is eligible since several states have allowed naturalized citizens from third parties to be placed on the presidential ballot.”

      That’s a fascinating comment, John, since I’ve never that accusation made before. Can you tell us who those candidates were and maybe your reference for them?

  75. My favorite document about Barack Obama’s place of birth is this one, his registration at Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, photographed by the AP in 2007. This document contains information that makes both his friends and enemies ignore it. His enemies must ignore it because it says he was born in Honolulu, but his friend must also ignore it because it lists his religion as “Islam”.

    While I believe he was born in Honolulu, I think it’s a fair question to ask since it’s a constitutional requirement for president, just like it was fair to ask the same question about McCain, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. There should be some legal authority that actually verifies that a President is eligible since several states have allowed naturalized citizens from third parties to be placed on the presidential ballot.

    • “There should be some legal authority that actually verifies that a President is eligible since several states have allowed naturalized citizens from third parties to be placed on the presidential ballot.”

      That’s a fascinating comment, John, since I’ve never that accusation made before. Can you tell us who those candidates were and maybe your reference for them?

  76. Well I would be interested to hear what these very same “Birthers” would say about 9/11 being an inside job by the conservative Bush administration.

    The problem with conspiracy theories is their reasoning works backwards. Instead of examining evidence and drawing conclusions from where said evidence points, conspiracy buffs instead take a conclusion (in this case, “Obama ain’t no American, goddammit”) and then nitpick at all sorts of details in order to find something resembling an argument.

    The fact is, if Obama really was born in Kenya, there have to be a lot, and I mean A LOT of people at Intelligence and Security agencies in the country who are aware of this fact. Are they all being paid to keep their mouths shut?

    My answer is yes: just as much as the 9/11 inside job conspirators are being paid.

    I would like to conclude by saying Abhi should probably turn comments off once this gets more asinine than it already is. I myself identify as a small-government conservative, but Birthers are only working to discredit the Republican party and give Obama a better chance at winning re-election.

    Take your fanatical bullshit elsewhere.

  77. Well I would be interested to hear what these very same “Birthers” would say about 9/11 being an inside job by the conservative Bush administration.

    The problem with conspiracy theories is their reasoning works backwards. Instead of examining evidence and drawing conclusions from where said evidence points, conspiracy buffs instead take a conclusion (in this case, “Obama ain’t no American, goddammit”) and then nitpick at all sorts of details in order to find something resembling an argument.

    The fact is, if Obama really was born in Kenya, there have to be a lot, and I mean A LOT of people at Intelligence and Security agencies in the country who are aware of this fact. Are they all being paid to keep their mouths shut?

    My answer is yes: just as much as the 9/11 inside job conspirators are being paid.

    I would like to conclude by saying Abhi should probably turn comments off once this gets more asinine than it already is. I myself identify as a small-government conservative, but Birthers are only working to discredit the Republican party and give Obama a better chance at winning re-election.

    Take your fanatical bullshit elsewhere.

  78. i’m pretty sure the apex of the birther movement was in september, this was pre-tea party madness… shouldn’t we be focusing on more present issues, like the surge 2.0?

  79. i’m pretty sure the apex of the birther movement was in september, this was pre-tea party madness… shouldn’t we be focusing on more present issues, like the surge 2.0?

  80. • At first they (powers that be) tried to pretend the issue didn’t exist. When they couldn’t ignore the issue they began to ridicule anyone who dared to ask uncomfortable questions. Now they are fighting the issue’s existence tooth and nail. That reminds me of other struggles against the empire.

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi

  81. • At first they (powers that be) tried to pretend the issue didn’t exist. When they couldn’t ignore the issue they began to ridicule anyone who dared to ask uncomfortable questions. Now they are fighting the issue’s existence tooth and nail. That reminds me of other struggles against the empire.

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi

  82. Obama’s Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know

    Mostly facts and very little rhetoric, all properly cited. This is how research should be done.

    Now what will the Obot PSYOPS agents do?
    Let me Guess; ridicule, name calling, personal attacks and changing the subject.

    http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=6216

    Somehow, you know its coming. That OMG moment is just around the corner. You can feel the inescapable reality creeping up on you. Something will leak. Someone will spill the beans.

    “For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.” Luke 8:17

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html

  83. Obama’s Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know

    Mostly facts and very little rhetoric, all properly cited. This is how research should be done.

    Now what will the Obot PSYOPS agents do?
    Let me Guess; ridicule, name calling, personal attacks and changing the subject.

    http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=6216

    Somehow, you know its coming. That OMG moment is just around the corner. You can feel the inescapable reality creeping up on you. Something will leak. Someone will spill the beans.

    “For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.” Luke 8:17

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html

  84. What was the point of this article? CMCers are well-enough informed that we know this phenomenon exists and has for months now, the article doesn’t give new information or provide a local context, and now we have crazy randos trolling about our school paper. Think harder next time about what you publish..

    • Poor babies. Wouldn’t want your precious little socialist enclave upset by some real world debate now would you?

      • “Socialist enclave”? HA!

        Our founding president ended his tenure to serve in the Nixon administration. A slew of our professors are associated with the Claremont Institute, an organization that recently gave Donald Rumsfeld a statesmanship award. Our government and economics departments, in particular, have a reputation as among the most conservative/libertarian in the country.

        Our school motto is “Crescit cum comercio civitas”: “civilization prospers with commerce.” By God, that’s the most socialist sentence I’ve ever heard!

        We disagree with you because you’re wrong and at least mildly insane. It has nothing to do with our political leanings.

  85. What was the point of this article? CMCers are well-enough informed that we know this phenomenon exists and has for months now, the article doesn’t give new information or provide a local context, and now we have crazy randos trolling about our school paper. Think harder next time about what you publish..

    • Poor babies. Wouldn’t want your precious little socialist enclave upset by some real world debate now would you?

      • “Socialist enclave”? HA!

        Our founding president ended his tenure to serve in the Nixon administration. A slew of our professors are associated with the Claremont Institute, an organization that recently gave Donald Rumsfeld a statesmanship award. Our government and economics departments, in particular, have a reputation as among the most conservative/libertarian in the country.

        Our school motto is “Crescit cum comercio civitas”: “civilization prospers with commerce.” By God, that’s the most socialist sentence I’ve ever heard!

        We disagree with you because you’re wrong and at least mildly insane. It has nothing to do with our political leanings.

  86. This is embarrassing that the conversation has gone on this long. Do you people seriously believe that Obama could get away with not being an American citizen and there wouldn’t be more outrage than a bunch of fanatics on one extreme of the spectrum? Just my opinion, but I think this would be getting a lot more media attention if there were any real credibility to this theory. You don’t become President without some pretty heavy background checks, both from your friends and your enemies.

    Seriously, I can’t believe so many people are actually taking this theory seriously. Kinda reflects the sorry state of a lot of people in this country. On a similar note, ChrisB, if you’re so smart, why are you wasting your time reading the newspaper of a “little rinky dink” college that you’re not even interested in? With your high IQ, shouldn’t you be out solving the Grand Unified Theory or something? Or are you too smart for that too?

  87. This is embarrassing that the conversation has gone on this long. Do you people seriously believe that Obama could get away with not being an American citizen and there wouldn’t be more outrage than a bunch of fanatics on one extreme of the spectrum? Just my opinion, but I think this would be getting a lot more media attention if there were any real credibility to this theory. You don’t become President without some pretty heavy background checks, both from your friends and your enemies.

    Seriously, I can’t believe so many people are actually taking this theory seriously. Kinda reflects the sorry state of a lot of people in this country. On a similar note, ChrisB, if you’re so smart, why are you wasting your time reading the newspaper of a “little rinky dink” college that you’re not even interested in? With your high IQ, shouldn’t you be out solving the Grand Unified Theory or something? Or are you too smart for that too?

  88. Yeahhh. I’d love to see what colleges half these morons went to (if any). *Hint* You losers from World Net Daily should stop bashing us and our college on our boards, and either a) go get laid, or b) at least be informed and sound educated when you come on here. Deal? Deal.

  89. Yeahhh. I’d love to see what colleges half these morons went to (if any). *Hint* You losers from World Net Daily should stop bashing us and our college on our boards, and either a) go get laid, or b) at least be informed and sound educated when you come on here. Deal? Deal.

  90. Hey Sewell, you know what they say about crazies like you?
    When you make up half-baked conspiracy theories about somebody like Obama, it’s like you’re pissing on a statue: he’s there because he’s accomplished something great, you’re bitter that you have nothing better to do than make shit up on comment boards, and you feel better about your sorry self by hating on him when in reality, your pathetic whining isn’t gonna do a damn thing to bring him down.

    The man’s already the President. We can disagree about whether or not he’s doing a good job, but he is still the President and you’re gonna need to do a try a lot harder to bring him down. How about starting by nominating someone better than Sarah Palin in 2012?

  91. Hey Sewell, you know what they say about crazies like you?
    When you make up half-baked conspiracy theories about somebody like Obama, it’s like you’re pissing on a statue: he’s there because he’s accomplished something great, you’re bitter that you have nothing better to do than make shit up on comment boards, and you feel better about your sorry self by hating on him when in reality, your pathetic whining isn’t gonna do a damn thing to bring him down.

    The man’s already the President. We can disagree about whether or not he’s doing a good job, but he is still the President and you’re gonna need to do a try a lot harder to bring him down. How about starting by nominating someone better than Sarah Palin in 2012?

  92. Ugh. We are all educated enough (apart from maybe CJ) that we know the burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. These world net trolls (and CJ) put out comments without backing them up with real evidence. Until they post real evidence, just ignore their desperate claims. Debate or logic should be a GE.

  93. Ugh. We are all educated enough (apart from maybe CJ) that we know the burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. These world net trolls (and CJ) put out comments without backing them up with real evidence. Until they post real evidence, just ignore their desperate claims. Debate or logic should be a GE.

  94. Thank you World Net Daily for finally shedding some light on one of the most complex, deceptive acts of fraud in the history of this country. It’s shameful that he could violate Article II of the Constitution and get away with it with so little resistance from anyone else. I’ve been saying all along that we should’ve put Sarah Palin in the White House. At least she’s a “Real American”. Or at least that’s what she said, and everybody knows that she’s never been wrong about anything important.

    The really scary part is that we’ve just scratched the surface of the whole matter. Some very compelling evidence has just come up that explains it all. It turns out that Obama’s run for election was all part of a huge heist that tricked all of us. He and McCain aren’t even enemies; it was just a huge scam perpetrated by a few very powerful people that managed to convince the whole country to let them pull of their plan. They ran against each other so that one of them could get into the White House and steal the Hope Diamond from the Smithsonian. I can’t even imagine what’s gonna happen to him once all this news breaks and the whole world finds out that we spent 2008 going through a phony election just so Obama and McCain could steal some valuable jewelery. But by then, it might be too late and he’ll already be gone with the Hope Diamond, never to be found again. Even Sarah Palin was in on this too! (Guess she’s not as stupid as we all thought)

    Unlike the rest of you, I actually have irrefutable evidence to support my claim. Watch for yourself and you won’t believe how deep the rabbit hole goes. Or Obama’s tunnel from the White House into the Smithsonian.
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/207897/

  95. Thank you World Net Daily for finally shedding some light on one of the most complex, deceptive acts of fraud in the history of this country. It’s shameful that he could violate Article II of the Constitution and get away with it with so little resistance from anyone else. I’ve been saying all along that we should’ve put Sarah Palin in the White House. At least she’s a “Real American”. Or at least that’s what she said, and everybody knows that she’s never been wrong about anything important.

    The really scary part is that we’ve just scratched the surface of the whole matter. Some very compelling evidence has just come up that explains it all. It turns out that Obama’s run for election was all part of a huge heist that tricked all of us. He and McCain aren’t even enemies; it was just a huge scam perpetrated by a few very powerful people that managed to convince the whole country to let them pull of their plan. They ran against each other so that one of them could get into the White House and steal the Hope Diamond from the Smithsonian. I can’t even imagine what’s gonna happen to him once all this news breaks and the whole world finds out that we spent 2008 going through a phony election just so Obama and McCain could steal some valuable jewelery. But by then, it might be too late and he’ll already be gone with the Hope Diamond, never to be found again. Even Sarah Palin was in on this too! (Guess she’s not as stupid as we all thought)

    Unlike the rest of you, I actually have irrefutable evidence to support my claim. Watch for yourself and you won’t believe how deep the rabbit hole goes. Or Obama’s tunnel from the White House into the Smithsonian.
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/207897/

  96. either CMC has a lot more legit crazy people than I was aware of, or the forum has gotten a lot more popular.

    i’m with leave it alone already and llort

  97. either CMC has a lot more legit crazy people than I was aware of, or the forum has gotten a lot more popular.

    i’m with leave it alone already and llort

  98. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Wow.

    I have no substantial comment.

    Fyi, birther folk, I think that you guys may want to consider the fact that attacking the people who don’t agree with you on this forum will not “wake them up” or get them to change their mind.

    People don’t change their minds when you attack them. They entrench themselves.

    Case in point: we’ve been calling you guys fucking nutcases(quite rightly) and you guys haven’t snapped out of your many, many layers of rationalization.

    Perhaps, if you genuinely want to convince people of your crazy ideals, a change of tactics would be in order?

    • Unbelieveable! Are you one of those “highly intelligent” CMC students? You totally destroy your own argument with your own words. I couldn’t have rebutted your assertion any better than you did in the very same message. I’m sure CMC is very proud of you.

  99. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Wow.

    I have no substantial comment.

    Fyi, birther folk, I think that you guys may want to consider the fact that attacking the people who don’t agree with you on this forum will not “wake them up” or get them to change their mind.

    People don’t change their minds when you attack them. They entrench themselves.

    Case in point: we’ve been calling you guys fucking nutcases(quite rightly) and you guys haven’t snapped out of your many, many layers of rationalization.

    Perhaps, if you genuinely want to convince people of your crazy ideals, a change of tactics would be in order?

    • Unbelieveable! Are you one of those “highly intelligent” CMC students? You totally destroy your own argument with your own words. I couldn’t have rebutted your assertion any better than you did in the very same message. I’m sure CMC is very proud of you.

  100. “Sam Sewell”

    Ah, the dysentery of the deranged lunatic, “Captain Steve” has infected your site.

  101. “Sam Sewell”

    Ah, the dysentery of the deranged lunatic, “Captain Steve” has infected your site.

  102. There is something to be said for the ivory tower of this liberal arts college: even our crazies aren’t this crazy.

    Way to invite them in Charlie! You should have known that they take the bait worse than CJ and me combined.

    • dear andrew,

      i had recent romantic relations with a fellow CMCer. following obligatory post-hook up small talk we got onto a light-hearted political discussion, and he proceeded to give a 20 minute rant about how Obama lied on his birth certificate, should be impeached for lying to america, and how a friend of a friend’s dad saw occidental applications marked ‘international application’. these crazies go to our school.

  103. There is something to be said for the ivory tower of this liberal arts college: even our crazies aren’t this crazy.

    Way to invite them in Charlie! You should have known that they take the bait worse than CJ and me combined.

    • dear andrew,

      i had recent romantic relations with a fellow CMCer. following obligatory post-hook up small talk we got onto a light-hearted political discussion, and he proceeded to give a 20 minute rant about how Obama lied on his birth certificate, should be impeached for lying to america, and how a friend of a friend’s dad saw occidental applications marked ‘international application’. these crazies go to our school.

  104. This “TRUTHER” wants to see his passports and his collage applications, also his mother passport travel records, why are these hidden also (maybe there is something to hide here)?. I have the right to see these things because they are “Public Property” and in turn owned by “We the People” (that’s me and you). Some one here asked about my college education, I will show mine when obummer shows his!!
    If I get pulled over, do I realy have to prove that I have a licence? Shouldn’t the cop have to prove that I do not have one, (thats what was said about conspiracy therioes, or the cops are conspiring against everyone)? Or as some would like to think, by just asking these questions, it is a conspiracy,or I am a racist. If am asking a question that is often asked of me, how can I be a Racist or a conspiracy minded, and not those who ask it of me?
    When you get pulled over, do you tell the cop that they are part of a “vast right wing conspiracy”, for asking? Shouldn’t the cops should get the proof of such before pulling you over? Isn’t that what you are saying when talking about this Natraul Born Citizen conspiracy? Your education will be useless when you come up against a someone who has the facts and a Doctorite from the School of Hard Knocks.

  105. This “TRUTHER” wants to see his passports and his collage applications, also his mother passport travel records, why are these hidden also (maybe there is something to hide here)?. I have the right to see these things because they are “Public Property” and in turn owned by “We the People” (that’s me and you). Some one here asked about my college education, I will show mine when obummer shows his!!
    If I get pulled over, do I realy have to prove that I have a licence? Shouldn’t the cop have to prove that I do not have one, (thats what was said about conspiracy therioes, or the cops are conspiring against everyone)? Or as some would like to think, by just asking these questions, it is a conspiracy,or I am a racist. If am asking a question that is often asked of me, how can I be a Racist or a conspiracy minded, and not those who ask it of me?
    When you get pulled over, do you tell the cop that they are part of a “vast right wing conspiracy”, for asking? Shouldn’t the cops should get the proof of such before pulling you over? Isn’t that what you are saying when talking about this Natraul Born Citizen conspiracy? Your education will be useless when you come up against a someone who has the facts and a Doctorite from the School of Hard Knocks.

  106. Anyone who believes Obama has presented a valid birth certificate is STUPID!

    Anyone who believes Obama is spending milionos of OUR tax dollars to keep his birth documents from the public without reason is STUPID!

    LIBERALS ARE STUPID!

  107. Anyone who believes Obama has presented a valid birth certificate is STUPID!

    Anyone who believes Obama is spending milionos of OUR tax dollars to keep his birth documents from the public without reason is STUPID!

    LIBERALS ARE STUPID!

  108. Obama is feuling this controversy by not disclosing a long-form birth certificate. Why any decent, law-abiding, US citizen would defend his stone-walling tactics is beyond me. ALL current and future candidates for public office should be required to produce their long-form birth certificate.

  109. Obama is feuling this controversy by not disclosing a long-form birth certificate. Why any decent, law-abiding, US citizen would defend his stone-walling tactics is beyond me. ALL current and future candidates for public office should be required to produce their long-form birth certificate.

  110. Obama is the antichrist! He cant unprove that fact or the fact that hes not a real president! Unless he shows this hidden birth certifecate the public doesnt know if he was born here or that his father wasnt really a jackal. Liberals are using government secrecy to ruin America and until you kids at clairmont mechanics college can learn to recognize the truth your digrees are useless.

  111. Obama is the antichrist! He cant unprove that fact or the fact that hes not a real president! Unless he shows this hidden birth certifecate the public doesnt know if he was born here or that his father wasnt really a jackal. Liberals are using government secrecy to ruin America and until you kids at clairmont mechanics college can learn to recognize the truth your digrees are useless.

  112. “Our founding president ended his tenure. . . ”

    Yadda, yadda, yadda. The opinionated, ignorant and childish name calling comments by your fellow students belie those impressive traditions. Do they not teach debate at your fine institution?

    “We disagree with you because you’re wrong and at least mildly insane.”

    I will ignore the childish insult and ask you to back up your assertion that I’m wrong.

    “It has nothing to do with our political leanings.”

    “Our?” Got a mouse in your pocket? Most of the postings are dripping with political contempt.

    If you’re as smart as you seem to think you are, tell me what the founding fathers meant by the term “natural born citizen” and WHY you conclude that.

  113. “Our founding president ended his tenure. . . ”

    Yadda, yadda, yadda. The opinionated, ignorant and childish name calling comments by your fellow students belie those impressive traditions. Do they not teach debate at your fine institution?

    “We disagree with you because you’re wrong and at least mildly insane.”

    I will ignore the childish insult and ask you to back up your assertion that I’m wrong.

    “It has nothing to do with our political leanings.”

    “Our?” Got a mouse in your pocket? Most of the postings are dripping with political contempt.

    If you’re as smart as you seem to think you are, tell me what the founding fathers meant by the term “natural born citizen” and WHY you conclude that.

  114. Honestly, after reading all of these comments (a complete waste of time induced by my concerta-fueled finals craze) I have decided that I truly hope Barack Obama is not an American citizen. That would show the true stupidity and ineptitude of the Republican party for allowing an African, or Martian, or lesbian, Muslim, communist, terrorist to be elected president.

    • It will be embarassing for a lot more than the Republicans. The Senate, the Congress, the SCOTUS and the rest of the judicial system will be equally embarassed.

      You seem real sure of yourself; perhaps you’d like to take on the task of defining ‘natural born citizen’ based on the founding father’s writings?

  115. Honestly, after reading all of these comments (a complete waste of time induced by my concerta-fueled finals craze) I have decided that I truly hope Barack Obama is not an American citizen. That would show the true stupidity and ineptitude of the Republican party for allowing an African, or Martian, or lesbian, Muslim, communist, terrorist to be elected president.

    • It will be embarassing for a lot more than the Republicans. The Senate, the Congress, the SCOTUS and the rest of the judicial system will be equally embarassed.

      You seem real sure of yourself; perhaps you’d like to take on the task of defining ‘natural born citizen’ based on the founding father’s writings?

  116. “Well I would be interested to hear what these very same “Birthers” would say about 9/11 being an inside job by the conservative Bush administration.”

    Before we jump into that bag of worms, tell us how much reading you’ve done on the subject. Are you familiar with the evidence and the questions that have resulted? Do YOU believe it was an inside job?

    • Well I’ve read into it extensively, and I’ve watched Loose Change several times, even showed it to my parents. While it does raise interesting questions, obviously if it was an inside job, countless people would know who have not come forward. As sad and terrible as 9/11 is, the idea that our own government did it is just not believable.

      I hope you, prsmith, understand that you’re arguing from a very difficult position with this whole birther idea. I don’t say it to be offensive, and indeed there is a role in society for questioning the way the news media and mainstream culture predicts events. But still, if Obama was indeed not a Natural Born Citizen, why was that never an attack made by the Republican Party during the campaign? If his major political rivals never publicly questioned it, well, I guess at that point we need to wonder why something that is the “story of the century” (which it surely would be, both 9/11 and Obama’s birth), then there should be squadrons of people coming forward. Until then, you’re ideas will never find a place in the mainstream. But I’m sure given your beliefs, you already understand that.

  117. “Well I would be interested to hear what these very same “Birthers” would say about 9/11 being an inside job by the conservative Bush administration.”

    Before we jump into that bag of worms, tell us how much reading you’ve done on the subject. Are you familiar with the evidence and the questions that have resulted? Do YOU believe it was an inside job?

    • Well I’ve read into it extensively, and I’ve watched Loose Change several times, even showed it to my parents. While it does raise interesting questions, obviously if it was an inside job, countless people would know who have not come forward. As sad and terrible as 9/11 is, the idea that our own government did it is just not believable.

      I hope you, prsmith, understand that you’re arguing from a very difficult position with this whole birther idea. I don’t say it to be offensive, and indeed there is a role in society for questioning the way the news media and mainstream culture predicts events. But still, if Obama was indeed not a Natural Born Citizen, why was that never an attack made by the Republican Party during the campaign? If his major political rivals never publicly questioned it, well, I guess at that point we need to wonder why something that is the “story of the century” (which it surely would be, both 9/11 and Obama’s birth), then there should be squadrons of people coming forward. Until then, you’re ideas will never find a place in the mainstream. But I’m sure given your beliefs, you already understand that.

  118. You’ve commented on both issues and said nothing on either. Let’s stick with the eligibility issue for the moment.

    I am painfully aware that I am arguing from the minority side and that most people are still blissfully ignorant of what is going on in this country and, therefore, averse to looking at the issue.

    I normally wouldn’t spend much time on this with a single blog but given that I’m conversing with a college campus and that y’all life is literally hanging in the balance, I’m willing to take a bit of extra time.

    Let’s start slow. From a U.S. Supreme Court case:

    Minor Vs. Happersett:

    “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parentS who were its citizenS (plural) became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first”

    Without going the extra step to set that as the definition, the SCOTUS came within a cat’s whisker of defing NBC as a person born on the soil of parentS who were citizenS. Given that our forefathers had just fought a bloody war against the British and were very concerned about a British subject becoming president of their newly formed republic, how else do you think they would have defined the term?

    • While I tend to agree with a more textual reading of the constituion, those days are over Mr. Smith. If we did read the constitution literally, and assuming some unproven claims against Obama’s citizenship are correct, you may be correct.

      Fact is, we don’t interpret the constitution literally. There have been cases challenging both Obama’s and McCain’s citizenship and precedent has been set showing that both qualify for president. You may not like it, and these rulings may go against a textual reading of the constitution, but thats all in the past. I hate the idea of a subjective constitution as much as you do, but I also know that our forefathers, a bunch of slave owning, dope smoking, women raping, white men didn’t come up with a perfect document. I’d rather amendments be passed to change our constitution than a court but thats not how things work nowadays.

      And fact is, there is no proof showing that Obama was not born in HI or that he ever rescinded his citizenship. There is plenty of hearsay from people, even his relatives, but no proof that would hold up in a court of law. Until you have proof enough to make such an accusation, I cannot take your argument seriously.

    • Seriously though, (to bring argument in from xkcd), what distinguishes birthers from moon conspirators, 9/11 conspirators, and UFO buffs. All three of those other groups are also able to put together evidence to support their cases. Are they also correct then? What makes this “conspiracy” different?

      I have no hopes of convincing you that myself (and the mainstream of the world) are correct, but I am legitimately interested to hear you address the point I’m making.

      • There is nothing inherently ‘ugly’ about a conspiracy theory. Each is posited based on facts (hopefully) and unanswered questions. Each can (should?) be researched, debated and either confirmed or rejected based on the evidence. Simply to say “oh, that’s just a conspiracy theory” and reject it out of hand makes a mockery of the scientific and debate processes.

        Remember, we could just as easily be talking about a Republican usurper as a Democrat.
        What goes around, comes around. Do you want this to happen again in the future? Wouldn’t it be better to answer the question now?

      • PR–Oh, you mean the Bobby Jindal who was actually born in America, and grew up in the State of Louisiana? Yeah, total usurper because of his brownness.
        Come on. I worked for him. He’s as American as they come, culturally AND legally. You are equating two people as illegitimate for the presidency because of the fact that they aren’t white. It’s clear where your biases lie.

  119. You’ve commented on both issues and said nothing on either. Let’s stick with the eligibility issue for the moment.

    I am painfully aware that I am arguing from the minority side and that most people are still blissfully ignorant of what is going on in this country and, therefore, averse to looking at the issue.

    I normally wouldn’t spend much time on this with a single blog but given that I’m conversing with a college campus and that y’all life is literally hanging in the balance, I’m willing to take a bit of extra time.

    Let’s start slow. From a U.S. Supreme Court case:

    Minor Vs. Happersett:

    “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parentS who were its citizenS (plural) became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first”

    Without going the extra step to set that as the definition, the SCOTUS came within a cat’s whisker of defing NBC as a person born on the soil of parentS who were citizenS. Given that our forefathers had just fought a bloody war against the British and were very concerned about a British subject becoming president of their newly formed republic, how else do you think they would have defined the term?

    • While I tend to agree with a more textual reading of the constituion, those days are over Mr. Smith. If we did read the constitution literally, and assuming some unproven claims against Obama’s citizenship are correct, you may be correct.

      Fact is, we don’t interpret the constitution literally. There have been cases challenging both Obama’s and McCain’s citizenship and precedent has been set showing that both qualify for president. You may not like it, and these rulings may go against a textual reading of the constitution, but thats all in the past. I hate the idea of a subjective constitution as much as you do, but I also know that our forefathers, a bunch of slave owning, dope smoking, women raping, white men didn’t come up with a perfect document. I’d rather amendments be passed to change our constitution than a court but thats not how things work nowadays.

      And fact is, there is no proof showing that Obama was not born in HI or that he ever rescinded his citizenship. There is plenty of hearsay from people, even his relatives, but no proof that would hold up in a court of law. Until you have proof enough to make such an accusation, I cannot take your argument seriously.

    • Seriously though, (to bring argument in from xkcd), what distinguishes birthers from moon conspirators, 9/11 conspirators, and UFO buffs. All three of those other groups are also able to put together evidence to support their cases. Are they also correct then? What makes this “conspiracy” different?

      I have no hopes of convincing you that myself (and the mainstream of the world) are correct, but I am legitimately interested to hear you address the point I’m making.

      • There is nothing inherently ‘ugly’ about a conspiracy theory. Each is posited based on facts (hopefully) and unanswered questions. Each can (should?) be researched, debated and either confirmed or rejected based on the evidence. Simply to say “oh, that’s just a conspiracy theory” and reject it out of hand makes a mockery of the scientific and debate processes.

        Remember, we could just as easily be talking about a Republican usurper as a Democrat.
        What goes around, comes around. Do you want this to happen again in the future? Wouldn’t it be better to answer the question now?

      • PR–Oh, you mean the Bobby Jindal who was actually born in America, and grew up in the State of Louisiana? Yeah, total usurper because of his brownness.
        Come on. I worked for him. He’s as American as they come, culturally AND legally. You are equating two people as illegitimate for the presidency because of the fact that they aren’t white. It’s clear where your biases lie.

  120. Words that i live by;

    “Ignorance is Bliss” if “You own the Ignorant”

    “If elections changed anything, elections would be outlawed”

    “A Free Lunch is only found in Mouse Traps”

    “When you’re in the Rat Race; even when you get the cheese, you still just a Rat” Mike Tyson

    Just remember this kids; “The mightest oak; was nothing more than a nut that stood it’s ground”

    The First Admendment; use it; or lose it~!!!!

  121. Words that i live by;

    “Ignorance is Bliss” if “You own the Ignorant”

    “If elections changed anything, elections would be outlawed”

    “A Free Lunch is only found in Mouse Traps”

    “When you’re in the Rat Race; even when you get the cheese, you still just a Rat” Mike Tyson

    Just remember this kids; “The mightest oak; was nothing more than a nut that stood it’s ground”

    The First Admendment; use it; or lose it~!!!!

  122. Ah, Strawman arguments. I love them so. I like how prsmith just blatantly ignored Evans relation to the 9-11 conspiracy theory because he couldn’t disprove it.

    • Hogwash. We’re discussing eligibility issues. Start another thread if you want to discuss 9-11.

  123. Ah, Strawman arguments. I love them so. I like how prsmith just blatantly ignored Evans relation to the 9-11 conspiracy theory because he couldn’t disprove it.

    • Hogwash. We’re discussing eligibility issues. Start another thread if you want to discuss 9-11.

  124. “While I tend to agree with a more textual reading of the constituion, those days are over Mr. Smith. If we did read the constitution literally, and assuming some unproven claims against Obama’s citizenship are correct, you may be correct. ”

    So you’re suggesting what? That we should ignore the law just because we don’t like what it says?

    “Fact is, we don’t interpret the constitution literally.”

    You are correct. I believe it is the job of the SCOTUS to define these things based on their determine of the intent of the founders. No?

    “There have been cases challenging both Obama’s and McCain’s citizenship and precedent has been set showing that both qualify for president. ”

    That is patently false. In McCain’s case, the Congress issues a resolution. They might as well have been declaring a holiday. There has been no court decision re. Barry’s eligibility.

    ” I’d rather amendments be passed to change our constitution than a court but thats not how things work nowadays. ”

    Then I suggest that we amend the Constitution to reflexct today’s ‘enlightened’ system. In the mean time, it’s the law – now let’s deal with those who ignore it.

    “And fact is, there is no proof showing that Obama was not born in HI or that he ever rescinded his citizenship”

    Nor did I argue either (where the hell did that come from – oh, a smokescreen)

    “Until you have proof enough to make such an accusation, I cannot take your argument seriously.”

    My proof came directly from a SCOTUS case. Can you take them seriously?

    So far, you’ve said nothing. No proof. No citations. No words from the founding fathers. No court cases. Nada. If you haven’t got anything to add, please step back and let your betters take on the task.

  125. “While I tend to agree with a more textual reading of the constituion, those days are over Mr. Smith. If we did read the constitution literally, and assuming some unproven claims against Obama’s citizenship are correct, you may be correct. ”

    So you’re suggesting what? That we should ignore the law just because we don’t like what it says?

    “Fact is, we don’t interpret the constitution literally.”

    You are correct. I believe it is the job of the SCOTUS to define these things based on their determine of the intent of the founders. No?

    “There have been cases challenging both Obama’s and McCain’s citizenship and precedent has been set showing that both qualify for president. ”

    That is patently false. In McCain’s case, the Congress issues a resolution. They might as well have been declaring a holiday. There has been no court decision re. Barry’s eligibility.

    ” I’d rather amendments be passed to change our constitution than a court but thats not how things work nowadays. ”

    Then I suggest that we amend the Constitution to reflexct today’s ‘enlightened’ system. In the mean time, it’s the law – now let’s deal with those who ignore it.

    “And fact is, there is no proof showing that Obama was not born in HI or that he ever rescinded his citizenship”

    Nor did I argue either (where the hell did that come from – oh, a smokescreen)

    “Until you have proof enough to make such an accusation, I cannot take your argument seriously.”

    My proof came directly from a SCOTUS case. Can you take them seriously?

    So far, you’ve said nothing. No proof. No citations. No words from the founding fathers. No court cases. Nada. If you haven’t got anything to add, please step back and let your betters take on the task.

  126. While y’all are researching, here’s another question to chew on. . .

    Did Barry lie when he said he was born in Kenya (during his IL Senate run) or did he lie when he said he was born in Hawaii during his presidential run (and supported it with not one but three different forged Certificates of Live Birth posted online by his campaign)?

  127. While y’all are researching, here’s another question to chew on. . .

    Did Barry lie when he said he was born in Kenya (during his IL Senate run) or did he lie when he said he was born in Hawaii during his presidential run (and supported it with not one but three different forged Certificates of Live Birth posted online by his campaign)?

  128. To the prsmith piece of shit:

    I heard the President say he was born in Hawaii.I read that Congress affirms that he was born in Hawaii. You are a traitorous lump of crap.

  129. To the prsmith piece of shit:

    I heard the President say he was born in Hawaii.I read that Congress affirms that he was born in Hawaii. You are a traitorous lump of crap.

  130. “Now there’s an intelligent comment. You must be a freshman.”

    No. But you are a douchebag. GFY, birthtard.

      • Lol. This statement just made your statements lose SO much credibility, if they had any to begin with. “Typical of liberals?…” Nice one, bub. It happens with most people, liberal or conservative. Don’t act like there’s some theory that one side is more intelligent or less name-calling than the other.

        For instance, I could say, typical conservatives, most of them are from the South, so most of them are racist. Are they? Not as many as I’m suggesting.

        Quit the sniping. You’re not going to win any arguments here.

  131. “Now there’s an intelligent comment. You must be a freshman.”

    No. But you are a douchebag. GFY, birthtard.

      • Lol. This statement just made your statements lose SO much credibility, if they had any to begin with. “Typical of liberals?…” Nice one, bub. It happens with most people, liberal or conservative. Don’t act like there’s some theory that one side is more intelligent or less name-calling than the other.

        For instance, I could say, typical conservatives, most of them are from the South, so most of them are racist. Are they? Not as many as I’m suggesting.

        Quit the sniping. You’re not going to win any arguments here.

  132. Just so I can address ALL of the possible citizenship scenarios, here is what has been argued.

    1) Barack Obama was not born in US territory.

    This does not seem likely and no evidence has ever been given showing he was born somewhere else, apart from hearsay. Barack has released a digital copy of the certificate and factcheck.org has done a piece on its legitimacy
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    2) Barack Obama was born in HI but isn’t a citizen because his parents weren’t US citizens.

    This is the most inane claims of the bunch as anyone born on US soil is a natural born citizen.

    3) Barack has dual citizenship s he isn’t a natural born citizen.

    This has also been disproven. The courts have repeatedly upheld that even if one has dual citizenship but was born in the US, they are a natural born citizen (see Ankeny v. Gov. State of Indiana)

    4) Barack was a citizen but lost it when he moved to Indonesia as a minor.

    This is also a false claim as natural born minors cannot have their citizenship taken away (see Perkins v. Elg)

    5) Obama can’t be a citizen due to (pakistan travel ban, the “kenyan” birth certificate”, hearsay from Obama’s stepgrandmother).

    These are also patently untrue. The pakistani travel ban is a complete fabrication. It never happened( see Brims, John S. (August 23, 1981). “Lahore; Letters to the Travel Editor”. New York Times.

    or

    “Travel Advisory No. 81-33A”. Passport Services/Bureau of Consular Affairs. Department of State. August 17, 1981.)

    As for the kenyan birth certificate, that was also a fabrication. Google it if you are interested but the fake certificate was issued from “the republic of kenya” which didn’t exist until 1963.

    As for the stepgrandmother hearsay, the video was cut off and pieced together to say Obama was born in Kenya. But how much credencce can you give to someone’s step grandmother who barely knew the guy? (see the actual interview from the step grandmother at Jones, Tim (March 27, 2007). “Barack Obama: Mother not just a girl from Kansas”. Hartford Courant (Connecticut).)

    I hope to have given evidence showing that all of the claims in this thread by the birthers on Barack’s citizenship are wrong but if I have missed one, please state what I missed.

  133. Just so I can address ALL of the possible citizenship scenarios, here is what has been argued.

    1) Barack Obama was not born in US territory.

    This does not seem likely and no evidence has ever been given showing he was born somewhere else, apart from hearsay. Barack has released a digital copy of the certificate and factcheck.org has done a piece on its legitimacy
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    2) Barack Obama was born in HI but isn’t a citizen because his parents weren’t US citizens.

    This is the most inane claims of the bunch as anyone born on US soil is a natural born citizen.

    3) Barack has dual citizenship s he isn’t a natural born citizen.

    This has also been disproven. The courts have repeatedly upheld that even if one has dual citizenship but was born in the US, they are a natural born citizen (see Ankeny v. Gov. State of Indiana)

    4) Barack was a citizen but lost it when he moved to Indonesia as a minor.

    This is also a false claim as natural born minors cannot have their citizenship taken away (see Perkins v. Elg)

    5) Obama can’t be a citizen due to (pakistan travel ban, the “kenyan” birth certificate”, hearsay from Obama’s stepgrandmother).

    These are also patently untrue. The pakistani travel ban is a complete fabrication. It never happened( see Brims, John S. (August 23, 1981). “Lahore; Letters to the Travel Editor”. New York Times.

    or

    “Travel Advisory No. 81-33A”. Passport Services/Bureau of Consular Affairs. Department of State. August 17, 1981.)

    As for the kenyan birth certificate, that was also a fabrication. Google it if you are interested but the fake certificate was issued from “the republic of kenya” which didn’t exist until 1963.

    As for the stepgrandmother hearsay, the video was cut off and pieced together to say Obama was born in Kenya. But how much credencce can you give to someone’s step grandmother who barely knew the guy? (see the actual interview from the step grandmother at Jones, Tim (March 27, 2007). “Barack Obama: Mother not just a girl from Kansas”. Hartford Courant (Connecticut).)

    I hope to have given evidence showing that all of the claims in this thread by the birthers on Barack’s citizenship are wrong but if I have missed one, please state what I missed.

  134. I think it tells us everything we need to know about the quality of Charlie Sprague’s writings that the blog post that has the most comments is, what for it, a piece about birthers.

    • No, it’s because World Net Daily crazies have anything that mentions it on their google alert, and were drawn here like bugs to a flame. It has nothing to do with quality, they’d have come here regardless if they were mentioned.

  135. I think it tells us everything we need to know about the quality of Charlie Sprague’s writings that the blog post that has the most comments is, what for it, a piece about birthers.

    • No, it’s because World Net Daily crazies have anything that mentions it on their google alert, and were drawn here like bugs to a flame. It has nothing to do with quality, they’d have come here regardless if they were mentioned.

  136. “You are equating two people as illegitimate for the presidency because of the fact that they aren’t white. It’s clear where your biases lie.”

    Sorry but your conclusion couldn’t be more wrong. Jindal’s parents were in the United States on student visas. Per the Constitution, he is a citizen but he is NOT eligible to be the POTUS and that is the ONLY reason I make that claim.

  137. “You are equating two people as illegitimate for the presidency because of the fact that they aren’t white. It’s clear where your biases lie.”

    Sorry but your conclusion couldn’t be more wrong. Jindal’s parents were in the United States on student visas. Per the Constitution, he is a citizen but he is NOT eligible to be the POTUS and that is the ONLY reason I make that claim.

  138. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).
    In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child’s birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.

    Con Law’d! You’re still racist, and also ignorant!
    🙂 And this is why I go to CMC.

    • Your comment is 100% correct and both Jindal and Obama (assuming he was born in HI) are citizens. . .unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with the definition of a natural born citizen or the eligibility of these two men to be the POTUS.

      {silly insults ignored}

    • I believe the real question prsmith is raising is what constitutes a natural born citizen, even if he is too incoherent to state this explicitly.

      One can be a citizen and not a natural born citizen. In my brief understanding, one can become a citizen by blood (jus sanguinis) or by being born in that country (jus soli).

      My understanding is that there is no explicit definition of what constitutes a natural born citizen. So while I disagree with prsmith, and believe that someone naturally born in the US is a natural born citizen, lawyers have a way of twisting words.

      But the 14th ammendment only explicitly addresses citizenship and not natural born citizenship.

      Wikipedia has an interesting summary of some cases you can find here.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

  139. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).
    In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child’s birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.

    Con Law’d! You’re still racist, and also ignorant!
    🙂 And this is why I go to CMC.

    • Your comment is 100% correct and both Jindal and Obama (assuming he was born in HI) are citizens. . .unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with the definition of a natural born citizen or the eligibility of these two men to be the POTUS.

      {silly insults ignored}

    • I believe the real question prsmith is raising is what constitutes a natural born citizen, even if he is too incoherent to state this explicitly.

      One can be a citizen and not a natural born citizen. In my brief understanding, one can become a citizen by blood (jus sanguinis) or by being born in that country (jus soli).

      My understanding is that there is no explicit definition of what constitutes a natural born citizen. So while I disagree with prsmith, and believe that someone naturally born in the US is a natural born citizen, lawyers have a way of twisting words.

      But the 14th ammendment only explicitly addresses citizenship and not natural born citizenship.

      Wikipedia has an interesting summary of some cases you can find here.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

  140. I think I can solve the problem here…prsmith needs to get laid, big time. What are u trying to achieve? If you feel so strongly about it, get a petition going, or do something that will lead you somewhere. I feel like commenting on a college forum repeatedly is such a waste of your time, since you are so smart.

    Hey but then again, if you were smart enough to get into college, you would have gotten laid. Chicks love guys like you.

  141. I think I can solve the problem here…prsmith needs to get laid, big time. What are u trying to achieve? If you feel so strongly about it, get a petition going, or do something that will lead you somewhere. I feel like commenting on a college forum repeatedly is such a waste of your time, since you are so smart.

    Hey but then again, if you were smart enough to get into college, you would have gotten laid. Chicks love guys like you.

Comments are closed.