Science Scares Me

Admittedly, I’ve screwed up. In my three years at CMC I have taken twenty-seven classes; not one of those has been a (hard) science . There science looms, taunting me from senior year. Fully one-fourth (and perhaps more) of my final year at this lovely education institution/resort will be devoted to the study of physics and biology—with lab!

I have not taken a science class since the tenth grade—when I took an exit examination a year early so that I could focus on those courses which I better enjoyed. I spent an entire month studying for that test with the promise that I would have the rest of my high school time sans-science. And, you know what, I’ve been enjoying those soft sciences (government and economics) as well as certain humanities (philosophy, religious studies, history, literature) ever since. I thought science and I had gone our separate ways—alas, no.

So what is the purpose of this piece, other than for me to kvetch to a wider than usual audience? My intentions are twofold: to urge others not to repeat my mistake, and to examine why it is we have two science requirements.

The Folly: I decided during freshman year, shortly after I found out that there were science requirements, to postpone taking those classes for as long as possible. I hoped that perhaps the Curriculum Committee might reduce the burden or alter the requirements in some way as to alleviate my impending doom. Needless to say, they did not. So why was this delay harmful? Because after being here for three years, having sampled a variety of professors and disciplines, I find myself in a good position to choose the courses I might most enjoy. Sadly, a substantial block of my schedule will be filled by these science classes instead.

So, if you like me suffer from labphobia and the thought of beakers makes you yearn for an intriguing novel, or a novel argument, here’s my advice: take your sciences early. Yes it is true that GE sciences fill quickly with seniors trying to complete half-forgotten requirements, but not every spot is taken. If science is not your thing, get it over with so that you can use your higher registration numbers later on to pick more enjoyable classes. I wish I had.

The Requirements: I understand, and mostly agree, with why we have a science requirement. A liberal education requires exposure to a broad range of disciplines and schools of thought. But it has always seemed to me (an admittedly uninformed observer of such things) that the scientific approach, which is to say the scientific method, is common to both the biological and physical sciences. The GE science classes require a time commitment well beyond a normal CMC class. When one considers the class time (2-3 hours/week) plus the lab time (1-3 hours/week) a science class seems to be closer to two regular CMC classes than one. The time commitment is significantly larger than those required by most other classes, but the class is not for 1.5 or 2 credits, and you have to take two of them.

So, in effect, CMC mandates four “units of academic time” be devoted to the sciences, more than the humanities (2 units) or the social sciences (3 units) or any other GE requirement. I wonder whether this use of time is most valuable. I suspect that requiring only one science plus lab would add just as much intellectual value to our liberal arts education as the two currently required. We do not require multiple introductions to any other discipline for non-majors, so why do we do so for the sciences?

I think it is fair to question this burden. It seems to me it would better to allows students to spend at least part of that time pursing a depth of knowledge in their chosen area of study. A strong standard of GE requirements, which CMC requires, is admirable. By and large, it forces students out of their shells and exposes them to multiple disciplines before we get sent out into the world. But burdens for burden’s sake seems to ignore this goal. The objective has been accomplished, and yet another test remains.

I invite you, if you have made it this far in my ramble, to proffer a reason why CMC should have this requirement. I do not know the answer, but I think asking the question is worthwhile.

Jesse Blumenthal

Jesse is a Senior at Claremont Claremont McKenna College, majoring in Philosophy, Politics, & Economics (PPE) and Government. He currently holds one of the best jobs on campus while living in the Student Apartments.

Senator on Curriculum Committe

There are plans to reduce the science GE to only a single class. The trade off it that they will no longer accept AP credit in place of the GE. This looks like it should happen by next year.

So don’t worry Jesse.
Senator on Curriculum Committee

There are plans to reduce the science GE to only a single class. The trade off it that they will no longer accept AP credit in place of the GE. This looks like it should happen by next year.

So don’t worry Jesse.
Science

So you make a good point about science classes being FAR more of a time commitment than other courses and that they are still only 1 credit. Well, welcome to the world of science majors. We can’t overload ever because taking two science courses with lab is like taking 6 classes already. We get no extra credit for the lab, but others can overload (which helps them get ahead in credits for roomdraw and other things). So the science classes only being 1 credit hurts all of us.

As science majors we have to take a ton of non-science classes for GEs, but when non-science majors have to take a science for a GE there is so much complaining. why?
Science

So you make a good point about science classes being FAR more of a time commitment than other courses and that they are still only 1 credit. Well, welcome to the world of science majors. We can’t overload ever because taking two science courses with lab is like taking 6 classes already. We get no extra credit for the lab, but others can overload (which helps them get ahead in credits for roomdraw and other things). So the science classes only being 1 credit hurts all of us.

As science majors we have to take a ton of non-science classes for GEs, but when non-science majors have to take a science for a GE there is so much complaining. why?
science 2

science is so much more of a time commitment. I’ve taken two labs at a time for 5 semesters now. I can’t wait to be free of them.
p.s. physics lab is a joke
science 2

science is so much more of a time commitment. I’ve taken two labs at a time for 5 semesters now. I can’t wait to be free of them.
p.s. physics lab is a joke
Science 3

Physics lab is a joke. However, O-Chem lab smells repulsive. Repulsive, I tell ya.
Science 3

Physics lab is a joke. However, O-Chem lab smells repulsive. Repulsive, I tell ya.
CMCer

Yeah. Econ majors who whine about working hard have never taken a science course. Unfortunately, it’s the science majors that work the hardest–you’d think the lab would count as a credit on it’s own.
CMCer

Yeah. Econ majors who whine about working hard have never taken a science course. Unfortunately, it’s the science majors that work the hardest–you’d think the lab would count as a credit on it’s own.
oh excuse me

So are you an econ major CMCer? Or are you a bit bias being a science major yourself? Ever taken advanced corporate finance? Econometrics? I think we all work hard, and we all are a bit bias about the amount of work we have to do. Think about that next time you hear an econ major ‘whining’, or you find yourself riding the whambulence.

Joke

I’m a science major (science and management) who has the lovely opportunity of taking both econometrics and organic chemistry (p-chem too, but that’s not the same caliber) along with other upper level bio/physics classes and I can guarantee you that metrics is far and beyond a joke compared to o-chem.

The amount of time necessary to achieve a high mark in the upper level sciences shits on any other curriculum at the school. And yes, when I hear econ majors whining about corp fin, or lit majors bitching about the 20 page paper they have to write, I roll my eyes. Because comparatively, they’re a joke.

agreed

Agreed. Running some data in a stats program a few times a semester, and BSing or legitimately writing a writeup is nothing compared to planning an experiment, doing a pre lab, watching the experiment for four hours, and writing it up on a weekly basis for no credit. Plus, most science classes test what you do in lab so not only do you not get credit for those 4+ hours a week, but you have to commit time to studying what you learned.

And the average grade in metrics and many other upper econ classes is an A-. It’s a B-/B in most sciences. It takes so much more of a time investment to do well, and the no credit labs don’t help.

I love the curriculum here, whether its Econ or the Sciences, but there should be little debate on how much more of a time commitment the hard science majors are, at least if you want a good grade.

science/econ dual

i’ve taken corp fin and metrics as well as ochem and upper level science/lab courses and i can say that hands down i spent maybe a tenth of the time i spent on ochem that i did on any upper level econ course, and that’s being generous.

Joke

You definitely didn’t get an A in o-chem then. It takes the average student (while that may not be a cmcer) about 2 hours of studying EVERY DAY on average to get an A in organic chemistry (coming from the AAMC which administers the MCAT). So, going on the fact that any cmcer here is above average (let’s say twice as efficient), they should only need to spend 1 hour a day studying o-chem to get an A.

Basing my judgment on that and your previous bullshit statement as you are most certainly lying, you spent 10 hours a day on upper level econ. Not bad my friend. You are a devoted student and I applaud you. Either that or just a liar. I’m pretty sure it’s the second one.

science/econ dual

i think you misread my statement; what i said was that a tenth of the time i spent studying for ochem was spent on econ (so, using your numbers, if i spent 1 hour a day studying ochem, i spent 10 minutes on econ). apologies if that was unclear. that said, my ochem studying was more like 48 consecutive hours before midterms than an hour a day, but that’s neither here nor there. my point was, science takes up a lot more time than econ – and i really have no reason to lie in an anonymous comment on the forum.
Math Major

I think you meant 6 minutes… 60*1/10=6 not 10… it’s amazing that we can get through o chem and metrics but not division

CMCer

“Oh excuse me” Just got pwned.

oh excuse me

So are you an econ major CMCer? Or are you a bit bias being a science major yourself? Ever taken advanced corporate finance? Econometrics? I think we all work hard, and we all are a bit bias about the amount of work we have to do. Think about that next time you hear an econ major ‘whining’, or you find yourself riding the whambulence.

Joke

I’m a science major (science and management) who has the lovely opportunity of taking both econometrics and organic chemistry (p-chem too, but that’s not the same caliber) along with other upper level bio/physics classes and I can guarantee you that metrics is far and beyond a joke compared to o-chem.

The amount of time necessary to achieve a high mark in the upper level sciences shits on any other curriculum at the school. And yes, when I hear econ majors whining about corp fin, or lit majors bitching about the 20 page paper they have to write, I roll my eyes. Because comparatively, they’re a joke.

agreed

Agreed. Running some data in a stats program a few times a semester, and BSing or legitimately writing a writeup is nothing compared to planning an experiment, doing a pre lab, watching the experiment for four hours, and writing it up on a weekly basis for no credit. Plus, most science classes test what you do in lab so not only do you not get credit for those 4+ hours a week, but you have to commit time to studying what you learned.

And the average grade in metrics and many other upper econ classes is an A-. It’s a B-/B in most sciences. It takes so much more of a time investment to do well, and the no credit labs don’t help.

I love the curriculum here, whether its Econ or the Sciences, but there should be little debate on how much more of a time commitment the hard science majors are, at least if you want a good grade.

science/econ dual

i’ve taken corp fin and metrics as well as ochem and upper level science/lab courses and i can say that hands down i spent maybe a tenth of the time i spent on ochem that i did on any upper level econ course, and that’s being generous.

Joke

You definitely didn’t get an A in o-chem then. It takes the average student (while that may not be a cmcer) about 2 hours of studying EVERY DAY on average to get an A in organic chemistry (coming from the AAMC which administers the MCAT). So, going on the fact that any cmcer here is above average (let’s say twice as efficient), they should only need to spend 1 hour a day studying o-chem to get an A.

Basing my judgment on that and your previous bullshit statement as you are most certainly lying, you spent 10 hours a day on upper level econ. Not bad my friend. You are a devoted student and I applaud you. Either that or just a liar. I’m pretty sure it’s the second one.

science/econ dual

i think you misread my statement; what i said was that a tenth of the time i spent studying for ochem was spent on econ (so, using your numbers, if i spent 1 hour a day studying ochem, i spent 10 minutes on econ). apologies if that was unclear. that said, my ochem studying was more like 48 consecutive hours before midterms than an hour a day, but that’s neither here nor there. my point was, science takes up a lot more time than econ – and i really have no reason to lie in an anonymous comment on the forum.
Math Major

I think you meant 6 minutes… 60*1/10=6 not 10… it’s amazing that we can get through o chem and metrics but not division

CMCer

“Oh excuse me” Just got pwned.

agreed

And onto Jesse’s article, if anything, I think an intro class comprising of bio, chem, and phys should be part of the GE requirement. I think most CMCers should have a basic grasp of bio, and in order to get that you need some chem and phys. There are just so many important applications of bio in the real world, whether its the lessons learned from systems like natural selection, to the mathematical modeling of r and k species, to the principles of the scientific method, which stats classes try to teach but don’t do enough of. I think the current GE classes don’t really teach the important principles of science and are uninteresting to many, hence their bad reputation. But science need not be hard or boring and they can be tailored to different majors. Why not have a chemistry class based around energy, commodities, and politics for IR majors? What about a biology and marketing class for Econ majors? We just need classes that stress the principles while being simple enough that students of all science backgrounds can excel. Throwing random equations around, as is the case in Energy and the Environment and Astronomy, doesn’t accomplish this.

Banana Phone

I totally agree, tailored science GEs would make me so much less afraid of them. If the policy does change to require only one GE, is it retroactive? I’ll be a sophomore next year and planning to take a science over the summer, so maybe science and I could part ways after this….
Well said

“agreed” has the best comment on this article. I would take more science courses than the required GEs if they were structured like this. I actually liked science, and even considered engineering before deciding on Econ/Math and even I dread the science GEs.

agreed

And onto Jesse’s article, if anything, I think an intro class comprising of bio, chem, and phys should be part of the GE requirement. I think most CMCers should have a basic grasp of bio, and in order to get that you need some chem and phys. There are just so many important applications of bio in the real world, whether its the lessons learned from systems like natural selection, to the mathematical modeling of r and k species, to the principles of the scientific method, which stats classes try to teach but don’t do enough of. I think the current GE classes don’t really teach the important principles of science and are uninteresting to many, hence their bad reputation. But science need not be hard or boring and they can be tailored to different majors. Why not have a chemistry class based around energy, commodities, and politics for IR majors? What about a biology and marketing class for Econ majors? We just need classes that stress the principles while being simple enough that students of all science backgrounds can excel. Throwing random equations around, as is the case in Energy and the Environment and Astronomy, doesn’t accomplish this.

Banana Phone

I totally agree, tailored science GEs would make me so much less afraid of them. If the policy does change to require only one GE, is it retroactive? I’ll be a sophomore next year and planning to take a science over the summer, so maybe science and I could part ways after this….
Well said

“agreed” has the best comment on this article. I would take more science courses than the required GEs if they were structured like this. I actually liked science, and even considered engineering before deciding on Econ/Math and even I dread the science GEs.

Helen

Biology and physics are not even close to the same discipline. They are a lot more different than foreign lit and lit, or philosophy and religious studies, so the requirements for humanities/social sciences certainly would constitute “multiple introductions” to a discipline if bio and physics do.

Sure they both use the scientific method, but they are deeply different in both procedure and subject matter. The work in a physics course is turning situations into math problems and solving them, whereas the work in an intro bio course is largely understanding/memorizing how things fit together.
Even if they weren’t so different procedurally, if you said “OK I’ve done physics, I could probably do bio if I needed to,” then every time you read an article about nutrition you would still be clueless.

I won’t even go into how both of them are different from chemistry (is that a physical science at CMC?). Just be grateful they have arbitrarily divided science up into two parts rather than three… or more. There is every justification for science to be its own category like humanities or social sciences — say split into bio, chem, physics, and comp sci — and have students take 2-3 from that, like the humanities and social sciences categories.

As for the time commitment, I agree with everyone who said it is a reflection of the reality for science students vs. humanities/etc. students.
Helen

Biology and physics are not even close to the same discipline. They are a lot more different than foreign lit and lit, or philosophy and religious studies, so the requirements for humanities/social sciences certainly would constitute “multiple introductions” to a discipline if bio and physics do.

Sure they both use the scientific method, but they are deeply different in both procedure and subject matter. The work in a physics course is turning situations into math problems and solving them, whereas the work in an intro bio course is largely understanding/memorizing how things fit together.
Even if they weren’t so different procedurally, if you said “OK I’ve done physics, I could probably do bio if I needed to,” then every time you read an article about nutrition you would still be clueless.

I won’t even go into how both of them are different from chemistry (is that a physical science at CMC?). Just be grateful they have arbitrarily divided science up into two parts rather than three… or more. There is every justification for science to be its own category like humanities or social sciences — say split into bio, chem, physics, and comp sci — and have students take 2-3 from that, like the humanities and social sciences categories.

As for the time commitment, I agree with everyone who said it is a reflection of the reality for science students vs. humanities/etc. students.
Science 4 (senior)

If only AISS had been around earlier… i’m jealous of all those kids who get to kill a few birds with one stone during their freshman year.

Science 3

I totally agree. That would have helped out so much!

Science 4 (senior)

If only AISS had been around earlier… i’m jealous of all those kids who get to kill a few birds with one stone during their freshman year.

Science 3

I totally agree. That would have helped out so much!

aladdin

@Science I overloaded with science classes before. I once took 3 lab science classes and 2 other classes at the same time. I got A’s in all the classes except for ochem, that I got a B+ in. I did have to work pretty hard, but I still got to go out 3 days a week…

So… I’m not just trying to brag, but I am saying that if you are willing to buckle down and be efficient with your time, you can overload and take 2 lab science courses (even 3!) at the same time.

As for the which is harder, science or econ debate, I would say that the hardest class on campus is probably organic chemistry hands down (especially second semester!).

In general though, science classes, while they have an extra time commitment are not that much “harder” than any other CMC class. In fact, I would argue that they are easier from a grading standpoint (though not from a time commitment perspective). The reason I say this is because CMC’s science department is Joint Science, most of the students in the classes are from Pitzer and Scripps, so you automatically end up being in the top 10-20% of the class just by virtue of being a CMC student who came in with greater test-taking ability, etc on average.

I am not saying all CMCers are smarter than all scrippsie and pitzer students. That’s not true at all, but on average CMCers can work less and get better results on tests (they were selected as students with higher SAT scores in the first place after all) than Scripps and Pitzer students.

grading

Just as an fyi, most of the JSD classes are standardized so that the average student gets a b-/b. This applies less to bio but much more to chem and phys.

Many of the upper econ courses have average grades of an A-, some a B+.

That final comment on Scrippsies and Pitzer is just wrong and inflammatory. How you performed in High School has little bearing on college performance, and even less bearing on how one does in one class or in one set of classes. In my experiences as a Science major, CMCers have been on average worse students than SC and PZ students, but I won’t make a broad claim that this applies in general as I’m not a selfish douche. All three colleges are very competitive and attract very smart and capable students. But do brag some more. Some of us work our way through college or volunteer and have trouble fitting in 2, let alone 3 labs with our busy schedules.

aladdin

@Science I overloaded with science classes before. I once took 3 lab science classes and 2 other classes at the same time. I got A’s in all the classes except for ochem, that I got a B+ in. I did have to work pretty hard, but I still got to go out 3 days a week…

So… I’m not just trying to brag, but I am saying that if you are willing to buckle down and be efficient with your time, you can overload and take 2 lab science courses (even 3!) at the same time.

As for the which is harder, science or econ debate, I would say that the hardest class on campus is probably organic chemistry hands down (especially second semester!).

In general though, science classes, while they have an extra time commitment are not that much “harder” than any other CMC class. In fact, I would argue that they are easier from a grading standpoint (though not from a time commitment perspective). The reason I say this is because CMC’s science department is Joint Science, most of the students in the classes are from Pitzer and Scripps, so you automatically end up being in the top 10-20% of the class just by virtue of being a CMC student who came in with greater test-taking ability, etc on average.

I am not saying all CMCers are smarter than all scrippsie and pitzer students. That’s not true at all, but on average CMCers can work less and get better results on tests (they were selected as students with higher SAT scores in the first place after all) than Scripps and Pitzer students.

grading

Just as an fyi, most of the JSD classes are standardized so that the average student gets a b-/b. This applies less to bio but much more to chem and phys.

Many of the upper econ courses have average grades of an A-, some a B+.

That final comment on Scrippsies and Pitzer is just wrong and inflammatory. How you performed in High School has little bearing on college performance, and even less bearing on how one does in one class or in one set of classes. In my experiences as a Science major, CMCers have been on average worse students than SC and PZ students, but I won’t make a broad claim that this applies in general as I’m not a selfish douche. All three colleges are very competitive and attract very smart and capable students. But do brag some more. Some of us work our way through college or volunteer and have trouble fitting in 2, let alone 3 labs with our busy schedules.

bigchris1313

ITT: 5C Students discuss how much better they are than their peers

anon

I lol’d. rules 1, 2, and over 9000?

bigchris1313

ITT: 5C Students discuss how much better they are than their peers

anon

I lol’d. rules 1, 2, and over 9000?

Jillian

I haven’t read the other comments… but it seems that science with a lab (especially hard science) should be 1.5 credits.
Jillian

I haven’t read the other comments… but it seems that science with a lab (especially hard science) should be 1.5 credits.
blueballs

science and econ are for sissies.

media studies is the hardest major at the 5C’s

Hot Leg

Damn straight!

I had to watch a WHOLE film the other day!!!

AND it ran 10 minutes longer than the class was supposed to!!!

The professor should have been more attentive to me shuffling my backpack around, ruffling papers, sighing a lot, and texting everyone I knew 5 minutes before the class ended.

You academic type people with your textbooks and papers and tests have no idea how hard us media studies students have it.

10 minutes over, I tell ya!

blueballs

science and econ are for sissies.

media studies is the hardest major at the 5C’s

Hot Leg

Damn straight!

I had to watch a WHOLE film the other day!!!

AND it ran 10 minutes longer than the class was supposed to!!!

The professor should have been more attentive to me shuffling my backpack around, ruffling papers, sighing a lot, and texting everyone I knew 5 minutes before the class ended.

You academic type people with your textbooks and papers and tests have no idea how hard us media studies students have it.

10 minutes over, I tell ya!

lol

It’s really not that much. It sucks for science majors who have to take a ton of stuff we won’t use in our careers, and our AP credits can’t even get us out of it. At least science AP credits are worth something, the other ones just place you higher but you still have to take the class (and often can’t even take it in summer school or at the other 5C’s).
Finally CMCer’s learn that labs are like an extra class (time and effort wise). Plus science classes tend to be earlier and on Fridays.

lol

but yes, that’s what going to a liberal arts college entails so I shouldn’t complain. It’s just annoying to hear you econ/gov majors complain about a little science.

lol

It’s really not that much. It sucks for science majors who have to take a ton of stuff we won’t use in our careers, and our AP credits can’t even get us out of it. At least science AP credits are worth something, the other ones just place you higher but you still have to take the class (and often can’t even take it in summer school or at the other 5C’s).
Finally CMCer’s learn that labs are like an extra class (time and effort wise). Plus science classes tend to be earlier and on Fridays.

lol

but yes, that’s what going to a liberal arts college entails so I shouldn’t complain. It’s just annoying to hear you econ/gov majors complain about a little science.

Enemy of Jesse

I used to hate Jesse’s guts, but this article was so good I now love him with all my heart…and other body parts.
Enemy of Jesse

I used to hate Jesse’s guts, but this article was so good I now love him with all my heart…and other body parts.
sciencestudent

I am a science major at CMC, and I have taken now 8 science classes that had a lab. I have not gotten credit for any one of those labs, despite the fact that the actual science class labs (genchem, organic chemistry, physiology, etc) are almost always 4 hours long.

I think everyone should stop being little pussies and accept the fact that most liberal arts colleges do not give half credit for labs.

and why does everyone think they need special “science for non-science major” classes? Why doesn’t the school have “econ for non-econ major” classes? I do not think it is fair for us to have to take classes designed for people interested in that subject…
sciencestudent

I am a science major at CMC, and I have taken now 8 science classes that had a lab. I have not gotten credit for any one of those labs, despite the fact that the actual science class labs (genchem, organic chemistry, physiology, etc) are almost always 4 hours long.

I think everyone should stop being little pussies and accept the fact that most liberal arts colleges do not give half credit for labs.

and why does everyone think they need special “science for non-science major” classes? Why doesn’t the school have “econ for non-econ major” classes? I do not think it is fair for us to have to take classes designed for people interested in that subject…
scientist

^Word.

I’m looking at the AP/IB credit, and you can only get out of taking classes in science, math, comp sci, foreign lang, or psych. That is such bullshit. So much for taking AP english, econ, gov, history. We can’t even replace it with non-major “science/math-y” classes like Mudd history of science or statistical econ. Stop complaining and take a (hella easy) AP science test in high school if you want one less science GE.
scientist

^Word.

I’m looking at the AP/IB credit, and you can only get out of taking classes in science, math, comp sci, foreign lang, or psych. That is such bullshit. So much for taking AP english, econ, gov, history. We can’t even replace it with non-major “science/math-y” classes like Mudd history of science or statistical econ. Stop complaining and take a (hella easy) AP science test in high school if you want one less science GE.

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