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	<title>Comments on: The Campus Conversation: Little People Wrestling</title>
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	<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling</link>
	<description>The Official Student Publication of Claremont McKenna College</description>
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		<title>By: Money, Power, and Influence. At your fingertips. Kind of.&#160;&#124;&#160;The Forum</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-14728</link>
		<dc:creator>Money, Power, and Influence. At your fingertips. Kind of.&#160;&#124;&#160;The Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-14728</guid>
		<description>[...] for writers and editors for the 2009-2010 academic year. You can write on topics ranging from Thursday night&#8217;s debauchery to Sunday morning&#8217;s talkshows, from craigslist safety to indie rock, from what you ate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for writers and editors for the 2009-2010 academic year. You can write on topics ranging from Thursday night&#8217;s debauchery to Sunday morning&#8217;s talkshows, from craigslist safety to indie rock, from what you ate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yoshi</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-6436</link>
		<dc:creator>Yoshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 05:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-6436</guid>
		<description>pls bring the little people to campus! omg that would be awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pls bring the little people to campus! omg that would be awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Yoshi</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-47303</link>
		<dc:creator>Yoshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-47303</guid>
		<description>pls bring the little people to campus! omg that would be awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pls bring the little people to campus! omg that would be awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-6263</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 05:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-6263</guid>
		<description>Cato&#039;s argument shows why treating individuals as mere members of a group abstracts from the qualities that make them human. Arbitrary classifications become more important than character or excellence. This is a what affirmative action does very clearly--a point worth making in light of Charlie Sprague&#039;s recent piece. Affirmative action treats minorities as diversity props rather than as people capable of intellectual insight and academic excellence.

But while I agree with Cato that what makes the jello wrestling so disgusting was that it singled out a specific group for our cruel pleasure, I should point out that there are other ways to dehumanize people (even contractually) that do not place group identity above humanity. For instance, we could pay people to have sex in a cage in North Quad. Ron&#039;s logic would certainly say this is fine. But I think a higher sense of who we are would look down on such uninhibited libertarianism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cato&#8217;s argument shows why treating individuals as mere members of a group abstracts from the qualities that make them human. Arbitrary classifications become more important than character or excellence. This is a what affirmative action does very clearly&#8211;a point worth making in light of Charlie Sprague&#8217;s recent piece. Affirmative action treats minorities as diversity props rather than as people capable of intellectual insight and academic excellence.</p>
<p>But while I agree with Cato that what makes the jello wrestling so disgusting was that it singled out a specific group for our cruel pleasure, I should point out that there are other ways to dehumanize people (even contractually) that do not place group identity above humanity. For instance, we could pay people to have sex in a cage in North Quad. Ron&#8217;s logic would certainly say this is fine. But I think a higher sense of who we are would look down on such uninhibited libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-47302</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 05:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-47302</guid>
		<description>Cato&#039;s argument shows why treating individuals as mere members of a group abstracts from the qualities that make them human. Arbitrary classifications become more important than character or excellence. This is a what affirmative action does very clearly--a point worth making in light of Charlie Sprague&#039;s recent piece. Affirmative action treats minorities as diversity props rather than as people capable of intellectual insight and academic excellence.

But while I agree with Cato that what makes the jello wrestling so disgusting was that it singled out a specific group for our cruel pleasure, I should point out that there are other ways to dehumanize people (even contractually) that do not place group identity above humanity. For instance, we could pay people to have sex in a cage in North Quad. Ron&#039;s logic would certainly say this is fine. But I think a higher sense of who we are would look down on such uninhibited libertarianism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cato&#8217;s argument shows why treating individuals as mere members of a group abstracts from the qualities that make them human. Arbitrary classifications become more important than character or excellence. This is a what affirmative action does very clearly&#8211;a point worth making in light of Charlie Sprague&#8217;s recent piece. Affirmative action treats minorities as diversity props rather than as people capable of intellectual insight and academic excellence.</p>
<p>But while I agree with Cato that what makes the jello wrestling so disgusting was that it singled out a specific group for our cruel pleasure, I should point out that there are other ways to dehumanize people (even contractually) that do not place group identity above humanity. For instance, we could pay people to have sex in a cage in North Quad. Ron&#8217;s logic would certainly say this is fine. But I think a higher sense of who we are would look down on such uninhibited libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-6262</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-6262</guid>
		<description>Ron&#039;s argument shows why utilitarianism descends into relativism when you think seriously. He tries to use rational argument to show the impossibility of rational argument.

If it&#039;s true, as Ron suggests, that humans possess absolutely no control over themselves--that is, they are incapable of reasonable reflection on their actions and incapable of ranking what is better or worse--then there is absolutely no reason to try to persuade us to respect the freedom or rights of anybody to engage in any type of behavior. We will be compelled to violate others&#039; freedom whenever we are carried away by whatever passions happen to be driving us. After all, &quot;we cannot control how we feel.&quot;

If human being really is the mere expression of random and unintelligible passions, then there can be no reason to assert that repression is somehow inferior to expression of feelings. Who&#039;s to say? Why? Nor is it possible to assert that entertainment is somehow a good that &quot;we should embrace.&quot; Why not endorse repression? Why not abuse the midgets while we&#039;re at it, if that pleases us after all? What if we &quot;feel&quot; or are entertained by repressing and tyrannizing others&#039; feelings?

Thus Ron can&#039;t really assert that anything is in our &quot;best interest,&quot; because he doesn&#039;t believe we can know what is in our &quot;best interest&quot; at all. For Ron, it&#039;s all about random desires. His attempt to equalize all pleasures really reveals that pleasure has no more value than any other type of feeling we might experience.

But if one allows a standard of human nature (and doesn&#039;t simply dismiss it out of a blind dogmatism), then one can actually make an argument about what actions are more human, or more fully human. These actions, I would speculate, point toward a rationality that makes us above the animal.

In that light, I think we would find that the more whorish we are, the more animalistic we are. We would probably find that human excellence is not derived from treating others like play things (even if we pay them), and we would probably find more satisfying, rational pleasures than being slaves to entertainment or &quot;the brain below the waist.&quot;

Ron&#039;s idea of freedom makes us total slaves. We think we&#039;re free, but really we&#039;re just petty, calculating animals--&quot;last men&quot; to use Nietzsche&#039;s expression--who submit to egalitarian hedonism for no real reason than that we don&#039;t have the courage to live a different life.

A real freedom would allow us to pursue a life that is more fully exhibits our natural human capacities. Excellence, or the good life, would be our aim. Sure, out of practicality it might make sense to allow some rather crass contracts. But it&#039;s not fitting for a college directed toward enriching the life of the mind to indulge the animal spirits of lesser souls. We dehumanize the midgets by treating them as subrational beings, or props for our pleasing, and we dehumanize ourselves by suggesting that our basest desires are all we can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron&#8217;s argument shows why utilitarianism descends into relativism when you think seriously. He tries to use rational argument to show the impossibility of rational argument.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s true, as Ron suggests, that humans possess absolutely no control over themselves&#8211;that is, they are incapable of reasonable reflection on their actions and incapable of ranking what is better or worse&#8211;then there is absolutely no reason to try to persuade us to respect the freedom or rights of anybody to engage in any type of behavior. We will be compelled to violate others&#8217; freedom whenever we are carried away by whatever passions happen to be driving us. After all, &#8220;we cannot control how we feel.&#8221;</p>
<p>If human being really is the mere expression of random and unintelligible passions, then there can be no reason to assert that repression is somehow inferior to expression of feelings. Who&#8217;s to say? Why? Nor is it possible to assert that entertainment is somehow a good that &#8220;we should embrace.&#8221; Why not endorse repression? Why not abuse the midgets while we&#8217;re at it, if that pleases us after all? What if we &#8220;feel&#8221; or are entertained by repressing and tyrannizing others&#8217; feelings?</p>
<p>Thus Ron can&#8217;t really assert that anything is in our &#8220;best interest,&#8221; because he doesn&#8217;t believe we can know what is in our &#8220;best interest&#8221; at all. For Ron, it&#8217;s all about random desires. His attempt to equalize all pleasures really reveals that pleasure has no more value than any other type of feeling we might experience.</p>
<p>But if one allows a standard of human nature (and doesn&#8217;t simply dismiss it out of a blind dogmatism), then one can actually make an argument about what actions are more human, or more fully human. These actions, I would speculate, point toward a rationality that makes us above the animal.</p>
<p>In that light, I think we would find that the more whorish we are, the more animalistic we are. We would probably find that human excellence is not derived from treating others like play things (even if we pay them), and we would probably find more satisfying, rational pleasures than being slaves to entertainment or &#8220;the brain below the waist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ron&#8217;s idea of freedom makes us total slaves. We think we&#8217;re free, but really we&#8217;re just petty, calculating animals&#8211;&#8221;last men&#8221; to use Nietzsche&#8217;s expression&#8211;who submit to egalitarian hedonism for no real reason than that we don&#8217;t have the courage to live a different life.</p>
<p>A real freedom would allow us to pursue a life that is more fully exhibits our natural human capacities. Excellence, or the good life, would be our aim. Sure, out of practicality it might make sense to allow some rather crass contracts. But it&#8217;s not fitting for a college directed toward enriching the life of the mind to indulge the animal spirits of lesser souls. We dehumanize the midgets by treating them as subrational beings, or props for our pleasing, and we dehumanize ourselves by suggesting that our basest desires are all we can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-47301</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-47301</guid>
		<description>Ron&#039;s argument shows why utilitarianism descends into relativism when you think seriously. He tries to use rational argument to show the impossibility of rational argument.

If it&#039;s true, as Ron suggests, that humans possess absolutely no control over themselves--that is, they are incapable of reasonable reflection on their actions and incapable of ranking what is better or worse--then there is absolutely no reason to try to persuade us to respect the freedom or rights of anybody to engage in any type of behavior. We will be compelled to violate others&#039; freedom whenever we are carried away by whatever passions happen to be driving us. After all, &quot;we cannot control how we feel.&quot;

If human being really is the mere expression of random and unintelligible passions, then there can be no reason to assert that repression is somehow inferior to expression of feelings. Who&#039;s to say? Why? Nor is it possible to assert that entertainment is somehow a good that &quot;we should embrace.&quot; Why not endorse repression? Why not abuse the midgets while we&#039;re at it, if that pleases us after all? What if we &quot;feel&quot; or are entertained by repressing and tyrannizing others&#039; feelings?

Thus Ron can&#039;t really assert that anything is in our &quot;best interest,&quot; because he doesn&#039;t believe we can know what is in our &quot;best interest&quot; at all. For Ron, it&#039;s all about random desires. His attempt to equalize all pleasures really reveals that pleasure has no more value than any other type of feeling we might experience.

But if one allows a standard of human nature (and doesn&#039;t simply dismiss it out of a blind dogmatism), then one can actually make an argument about what actions are more human, or more fully human. These actions, I would speculate, point toward a rationality that makes us above the animal.

In that light, I think we would find that the more whorish we are, the more animalistic we are. We would probably find that human excellence is not derived from treating others like play things (even if we pay them), and we would probably find more satisfying, rational pleasures than being slaves to entertainment or &quot;the brain below the waist.&quot;

Ron&#039;s idea of freedom makes us total slaves. We think we&#039;re free, but really we&#039;re just petty, calculating animals--&quot;last men&quot; to use Nietzsche&#039;s expression--who submit to egalitarian hedonism for no real reason than that we don&#039;t have the courage to live a different life.

A real freedom would allow us to pursue a life that is more fully exhibits our natural human capacities. Excellence, or the good life, would be our aim. Sure, out of practicality it might make sense to allow some rather crass contracts. But it&#039;s not fitting for a college directed toward enriching the life of the mind to indulge the animal spirits of lesser souls. We dehumanize the midgets by treating them as subrational beings, or props for our pleasing, and we dehumanize ourselves by suggesting that our basest desires are all we can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron&#8217;s argument shows why utilitarianism descends into relativism when you think seriously. He tries to use rational argument to show the impossibility of rational argument.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s true, as Ron suggests, that humans possess absolutely no control over themselves&#8211;that is, they are incapable of reasonable reflection on their actions and incapable of ranking what is better or worse&#8211;then there is absolutely no reason to try to persuade us to respect the freedom or rights of anybody to engage in any type of behavior. We will be compelled to violate others&#8217; freedom whenever we are carried away by whatever passions happen to be driving us. After all, &#8220;we cannot control how we feel.&#8221;</p>
<p>If human being really is the mere expression of random and unintelligible passions, then there can be no reason to assert that repression is somehow inferior to expression of feelings. Who&#8217;s to say? Why? Nor is it possible to assert that entertainment is somehow a good that &#8220;we should embrace.&#8221; Why not endorse repression? Why not abuse the midgets while we&#8217;re at it, if that pleases us after all? What if we &#8220;feel&#8221; or are entertained by repressing and tyrannizing others&#8217; feelings?</p>
<p>Thus Ron can&#8217;t really assert that anything is in our &#8220;best interest,&#8221; because he doesn&#8217;t believe we can know what is in our &#8220;best interest&#8221; at all. For Ron, it&#8217;s all about random desires. His attempt to equalize all pleasures really reveals that pleasure has no more value than any other type of feeling we might experience.</p>
<p>But if one allows a standard of human nature (and doesn&#8217;t simply dismiss it out of a blind dogmatism), then one can actually make an argument about what actions are more human, or more fully human. These actions, I would speculate, point toward a rationality that makes us above the animal.</p>
<p>In that light, I think we would find that the more whorish we are, the more animalistic we are. We would probably find that human excellence is not derived from treating others like play things (even if we pay them), and we would probably find more satisfying, rational pleasures than being slaves to entertainment or &#8220;the brain below the waist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ron&#8217;s idea of freedom makes us total slaves. We think we&#8217;re free, but really we&#8217;re just petty, calculating animals&#8211;&#8221;last men&#8221; to use Nietzsche&#8217;s expression&#8211;who submit to egalitarian hedonism for no real reason than that we don&#8217;t have the courage to live a different life.</p>
<p>A real freedom would allow us to pursue a life that is more fully exhibits our natural human capacities. Excellence, or the good life, would be our aim. Sure, out of practicality it might make sense to allow some rather crass contracts. But it&#8217;s not fitting for a college directed toward enriching the life of the mind to indulge the animal spirits of lesser souls. We dehumanize the midgets by treating them as subrational beings, or props for our pleasing, and we dehumanize ourselves by suggesting that our basest desires are all we can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Meletus</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-6113</link>
		<dc:creator>Meletus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-6113</guid>
		<description>Who knew a debate about &lt;strike&gt; midget &lt;/strike&gt; little people wrestling could be so boring?  If this is philosophy, I&#039;m glad they killed Socrates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who knew a debate about <strike> midget </strike> little people wrestling could be so boring?  If this is philosophy, I&#8217;m glad they killed Socrates.</p>
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		<title>By: Meletus</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-47300</link>
		<dc:creator>Meletus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-47300</guid>
		<description>Who knew a debate about &lt;strike&gt; midget &lt;/strike&gt; little people wrestling could be so boring?  If this is philosophy, I&#039;m glad they killed Socrates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who knew a debate about <strike> midget </strike> little people wrestling could be so boring?  If this is philosophy, I&#8217;m glad they killed Socrates.</p>
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		<title>By: A real major</title>
		<link>http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04052009-the-campus-conversation-little-people-wrestling#comment-6107</link>
		<dc:creator>A real major</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cmcforum.com/?p=2836#comment-6107</guid>
		<description>You PPE kids have too much time on your hands</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You PPE kids have too much time on your hands</p>
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