- Old Timer on CMC Celeb: Isaac Goldberg: "This interview is going to the first of many skeletons in the closet f..."
- Who Dat? on CMC Celeb: Isaac Goldberg: "Goldberg plays a smooth 2nd base, and has mastered the swinging bunt...."
- A Mitch on Photo Essay: Swim and Track Meets: "good lines, maybe try some canted framing to make the races feel more ..."
- Kimberly M. on CMC Celeb: Isaac Goldberg: "The ex-Navy Seal is the best part of the Washington Program. <3..."
- Adam Smillie on CMC Celeb: Isaac Goldberg: "Isaac Goldberg, you're me hero......"
Will CMC Follow Dartmouth?
CMC President Pamela Gann has instructed Dean of Faculty Greg Hess to review the possible benefits of adopting a Dartmouth model here at the College. The plan, known colloquially as the “D-Plan,” is a scheduling system that has all students take one semester off in either their sophomore or junior years, which is then replaced with a required summer session for all rising juniors. “It’s both to accommodate families and student schedules and to see if we could run our college more efficiently, without really changing who we are,” says Dean Hess. “It’s definitely a big step.”
The plan would increase the student body by 150 students – without building a single new dormitory – and the administration projects that it would bring in roughly $1 million in added net revenue per year for CMC.
CMC wouldn’t necessarily copy the D-Plan’s every detail. For example, CMC may only allow students to choose between one of their two semesters of junior year to withdraw. The idea was originally posed by Gordon Bjork, a founder of the PPE program at CMC and a graduate of Dartmouth himself. Yet conversation within the CMC community has only just started, and the plan is being taken more seriously than ever. Hess and CMC Registrar Elizabeth Morgan have spoken to the Dean of the College at Dartmouth at length to get a grasp of the plan’s details, and Gann has informed the Council of Presidents of CMC’s exploratory review.
Many faculty members are already raising concerns that the plan would do more harm than good. Without students consistently on campus during the two central years of their college careers, many believe that academic opportunities and essentials – including the completion of one’s major – may become hurdles. In addition, those majoring off-campus or those who want to take electives at another college would run into difficulty, finding that the breadth of coursework usually offered is not available during the summer. Scripps and Pitzer may not want to fund the Joint Science Department for a summer term, and their support would be necessary for the plan to move forward. Additional faculty would be needed as well. “The faculty are interested in doing this if there’s a really good academic reason for doing so,” says Hess. Furthermore, applications for admission to Claremont McKenna, now at an all-time high, may decrease due to the new, unorthodox structure. When asked about the plan, CMC Dean of Admissions Richard Vos raised numerous concerns. “Not enough of the details of the CMC version of the Dartmouth Plan have been worked out,” he said.
Those details will be worked out over the rest of the calendar year. Hess expects much of the work to be done over the summer, with a more detailed report released by December. The report will be read closely by all of the Claremont College presidents, some of which are considering joining the plan themselves. Both Gann and Hess have spoken of deep interest from at least two other colleges, but neither identified which.
Proponents of the plan say the schedule structure offers unique opportunities to both students and faculty. Students would get to choose which of the four terms they take off, and making them candidates for internships that aren’t typical for college students. Faculty would be able to organize programs lasting three consecutive semesters without a stop. And it allows science majors to conduct experiments during the summer that wouldn’t normally be available during a classic academic year. “The central question this plan raises is: why don’t you run your college all year long?” Hess says. “Why do you need a period for things to lay fallow? It’s not like the campus needs to regenerate itself.”
It is difficult to determine whether or not adopting of the Dartmouth Plan would change the character of the school. The cohesive nature of a class may be jeopardized by its dispersion over sophomore and junior years, but Dartmouth insists that, on the contrary, it is strengthened by a unique bonding experience over the summer term. “I would not see any consideration of such a change at CMC to be a ‘change in character,’” Gann states. “Rather, we should do this only if we think that on balance it is done in such a way as to provide significant added value.”
Ultimately these questions will be fleshed out. But it may come down to a simple problem: Claremont, unfortunately, is no Hanover in summertime.
45 Comments
2009-04-27
12:04:13
"I hate that Dartmouth idea... I would never have gone to CMC if they made me do that."
2009-04-27
13:42:11
Yep. It's truly awful and needs to be (gently) suffocated in the cradle.
Some of us don't need the help of the college to get internships or jobs, thank you kindly.
2009-04-27
14:50:30
A small residential college is unique because of the continuity of the relationships that a student forms with his or her peers. Big universities allow -- and occasionally compel -- students to cycle in and out in a non-standard academic pattern, but CMC should never follow suit.
An extra million in the operating budget doesn't warrant this kind of drastic change.
2009-04-27
15:42:55
I think this might explain why Pam Gann is floating the idea:
"The plan would increase the student body by 150 students – without building a single new dormitory..."
2009-04-27
18:09:58
haha
2009-04-27
18:26:56
I think it's a great idea and if you ask anyone who goes to Dartmouth, chances are they can cite dozens of reasons why they love it with relatively few downsides.
The fall/spring internship thing is huge-- I have friends who landed jobs at hedge funds, publishing houses, etc that they would normally have had <1/100 chance of getting when they were up against thousands of other college students.
It's also cool to be on an almost empty campus with just your class... imagine the debauchery that would ensue in all of the empty rooms on campus. EVERYONE would have a north quad single!
2009-04-27
19:20:03
I'll just echo the good sir Mr. Johnson: "Some of us don’t need the help of the college to get internships or jobs, thank you kindly."
I'm not sure we'd like the idea either of the school changing policy because they think we need help competing with the Ivys. I know I don't.
What's worse is that this might be a financial exploit that's trying to be cloaked as benevolence. Worse first because it's not that much money and second because they'd be boosting our numbers while restricting our freedom. It's paternalistic, opportunistic, and just dumb.
2009-04-27
20:38:21
On money:
I don't really care about the money that CMC would save by having the summer session as much as I think it would be pretty damn cool to have like 250 of your friends alone on campus... it's CMC minus the freshmen, juniors, and seniors. That's some serious class bonding. Also, just think about how much fun CMC is when it's warm enough out to have water fights at midnight.
On jobs:
Some of us do need help finding a job, some of us don't. But most of us do, and it's with the help of the school, personal connections, and CMC's alumni network that most CMCers get the best jobs after graduation. Should we do away with career services just because a few arrogant people think everyone else should have to find a job on their own?
The idea isn't that we "need help competing with the Ivies," but when you're applying for a job at a place like Goldman Sachs with 1:800 odds of getting hired (and perhaps lower odds from a lesser-known west coast school), why would you not want help competing?
2009-04-27
18:53:50
BRO!
NORTH QUAD SINGLES!!!!!
2009-04-27
19:41:37
CMC hosts summer camps and conferences from June through August. If the College is willing to restrict freedom and mandate bizarre policies for $1 million, there's no way in hell they're going to stop the the summer conference cash cow. They'll be packing those summer juniors in to keep space available for the hyperactive kiddos who flood the campus during the summer.
2009-04-27
19:54:07
wait so there aren't going to be north quad singles.....
this doesn't sound sick anymore
2009-04-27
19:23:35
Can this administration mess up the college more?? A CMC degree will be worth considerably less in a decade, theres no doubt. First it goes soft and liberal, then it starts a bloated, unnecessary and distracting graduate school, and now its going to actively turn students off with a cash cow. Transfer while you still can!!
2009-04-27
20:07:32
This isn't so outlandish. After all, people already study abroad/Do the DC Program in sophomore spring, junior fall/spring and senior fall--the class is dispersed already. But geography may be destiny. That makes the summer part much less appealing than if it was say, on the coast.
2009-04-27
20:20:05
Don’t forget freedom. The option to study abroad is much different than the mandate. Also, with the mandate, don’t you think there will be greater rationing? The administration would likely who could go when, so you might be stuck leaving first semester sophomore year when you probably wouldn’t get that “Ivy League only” job.
2009-04-27
21:02:08
Tons of CMC pride here however one thing I and many alumnae find lacking at the school is hands-on experience in the real world. The d-plan is one reason why I applied early action to dartmouth and got rejected :(
I've been able to find some great real-world work opportunities to partake in during the school year but that was due to plain luck and connections, not due to anything CMC did or even due to anything special I did. The D-plan, and any CMC counterpart, encourages students to get some real-world experience and institutionalizes it. I don't mean being an errandboy at JP Morgan like so many summer internships turn out to be, but one can work for 3-6 months at a company in a real position, meet real people, and spruce up that resume. The only sacrifice is that one summer, which most likely would have been used at a less prestigious internship or at a minimum wage job, is devoted to academia.
I also like the plan as it encourages a lot of bonding within one's class during that special summer semester While being with a group of less than 300 would feel weird to me, you can't help but bond with so few people around. Heck, thats one of the biggest appeals of the Senior Apartments.
If the plan is enacted, CMC MUST cut back on some of its GE's as many classes won't be offered during that extra summer semester. I say we get rid of the language requirement or one of the social science requirement (Or whatever CMC now calls Civ10/Lit 10 or modify the science requirement).
2009-04-27
23:21:32
"Tons of CMC pride here however one thing I and many alumnae find lacking at the school is hands-on experience in the real world."
Bro, you've been to CMC, right? Like you've taken classes and stuff? Because you know, that's kind of what we're all about...
Our mission "is to educate its students for thoughtful and productive lives and responsible leadership in business, government, and the professions." What do you want - the college to show you how to wipe your ass at work?
2009-04-27
23:44:38
True, but many colleges have actual partnerships with businesses where students are sent away for a semester to get real-world experience to supplement their academic experience. The DC program is a uniquely CMC adaptation of this idea and is a great success. Some schools are all about abstract academia while some are just trade schools. CMC could be a bit less focused on the abstract academic aspect of colleges and partner with places to offer some hand-on experience to supplement the academics.
CMC has some great networking programs such as the silicon valley trip, and the leadership sequence gives class credit for "real-world" experience, but I and many others who I've talked to would prefer if the option to supplement our academic courseload with more experiential work was available. An open semester during the school year allows this as we can compete for real jobs for a longer period due to the overlap with winter or summer break, and not get lumped in with all the other internees just looking for a quick resume booster.
The d-plan opens these doors. Nobody is forced into things. Take some cheaper classes at a nearby college if you want to study during the off-semester. But those who want to get industry experience for longer than a summer break allows have an opportunity to do their thing.
2009-04-27
21:11:58
The job thing is a great idea but...
Does anyone remember that CMC is located in the desert? There's no way I would be able to spend 100 degree days here for weeks on end. A few days at the beginning and end of each year is enough.
Plus, there will be some serious lack of 5C quality.
If they care about something that cool where students can do independent studies or research, they should look at a winter term like Middlebury and Oberlin have.
2009-04-27
23:55:14
CMC has enough rooms with air conditioning to house one class. Claremont has rooms for about 140 and each of the towers can hold about 80 or 108 students. Also, the extremes in Claremont aren't nearly as bad as anything a couple hours east of here.
- Kim M.
2009-04-28
03:08:09
Welcome to the desert of the real.
2009-04-28
11:09:25
I'd like to object to that--those of us who were here for sports camps last year, we were put in rooms (all the rooms in North Quad)that had no AC.
2009-04-28
11:45:50
Very good Morpheus: "It is the real, and not the map, whose vestiges subsist here and there in the deserts that are no longer those of the Empire, but ours. The desert of the real itself." As the pretense and nominality behind this D-plan fade - as water rushes over sun-cracked mud, a perverse outpouring of the symbolic process - all that will remain will be the unbridled jouissance of Pam Gann's ambition. The desert of the real indeed.
2009-04-27
21:53:48
I can think of no worse summer than spending it with only my class. In North Quad. With no A/C.
Thanks, but I'll pass.
2009-04-27
23:09:44
OK the A/C is a fair point, but could we fit everyone in one class into, for example, Claremont + Marks/Benson, after renovating Benson with the milli saved?
2009-04-27
23:46:19
How about making the D-Plan optional and providing students incentives (like less GE's, or something financial) to go for the D-Plan...
2009-04-28
00:03:00
What a good idea, Sasi. You mean we can have a choice about our own education? Shocking.
What about those of us who don't want internships from the career services and take pride in being our own people?
I didn't bother applying to Dartmouth because I thought it wasn't nearly as good a school as CMC. Why is CMC deciding it needs to be like Dartmouth? Why doesn't Dartmouth try and become more like CMC? Just how many 600 million dollar gifts has Dartmouth received lately from its alums?
2009-04-28
00:54:25
almost every major bank and consulting firm that CMCers work at after graduation go through career services to accept job applications. everyone from goldman sachs and mckinsey to deloitte and d.e. shaw.
you can ignore career services, but if you want a job at a top consulting, banking, or finance firm, you cannot go without CSC
or you can work for some think tank in kansas.
2009-04-28
00:34:54
Charles, are you attacking Sasi? And why are you attacking Career Services? They're doing their job!!!! Besides, if 600 million dollar gifts are your only metrics, then does Yale also need to become more like CMC for refusing a large donation of equal amount?
Man, at least Rush Limbaugh picks his fights. You're like a whiny little kid.
2009-04-28
00:36:46
Charles,
What about those people like Josh who do want the choice to go for a D-Plan... Are you going to deny them them the option? When something is there for the taking, receive it with open arms - and as long as no one is forcing you to take sign up for it, you shouldn't have a problem. Kinda like study abroad if you think about it... I don't see people complaining about that...
In any case, I don't see the D-Plan being enforced upon us. We didn't sign up for it when we chose to come here. Personally though, I'd like to have the choice - and given the right incentives, I'd take it. If they do make it mandatory, I'd be disappointed, but then it is up for the incoming freshmen to decide whether they want a Dartmouth like education.
2009-04-28
00:38:08
*you to sign up...
2009-04-28
00:54:27
Yeah, this type of program could seem all fun and games until you really start to think about it:
Truly consider what the effects of this sort of thing would be if it were implemented - especially if it was required during Junior year. More than half of Juniors in each class go abroad for at least a semester. Then what? They take the other semester off, and they spend a whole year never seeing their classmates? Either that, or students start opting not to go abroad so that they don't lose all connection with the people at CMC, therefore ending the advantages offered by those unique experiences. Then, with less people going abroad, there would not even be as much extra room for more students, one of the key purposes of the plan.
Additionally, this program would not really offer anything new. While it is uncommon, there are students who take a semester off to get an internship. Of course, sometimes they take an extra semester to graduate, but they can also take summer courses or overload to make up the credits. If you really wanted the "during the year" work experience, you could get it - our current system isn't stopping you. We do not have to start some strange, compulsory scheduling scheme to make that happen.
Finally, think about our alumni base. Personally, such a plan could completely alienate much of our alumni base - including some large donors. I know that personally, I would not feel that CMC was as good a school as it is now if it implemented this - definitely not my CMC. If this happens, which is likely, we are looking at potentially a larger than 1 million dollar loss in fundraising from Alumni sources. So it potentially doesn't even mean success at the bottom line.
2009-04-28
01:13:26
>There are no College offered incentives to study abroad
>Study abroad, you're alone in Somalia. Here, half your class is on campus in summer... You don't lose connections - if anything, you gain some - summer on campus with only your class...
>"With the right incentives" the plan could work. Think about it, the college wants to make room for incoming freshmen without building a new dorm. In addition to that, more students = more $$ --> They need a solution.
There is one proposed here - up for debate. If made mandatory, certain major's and department heads have issues. Else, as you say, the current system doesn't stop anyone for going ahead with it. However, that doesn't seem to be working. There isn't enough demand for it. But the college desires it --> they need to provide incentives.
Say they waive the requirements of 2 GE's and the new graduation requirement is 30 courses (completely hypothetical people), then by taking a semester off and hitting up a summer for the other 2 courses, people will still graduate on time but now with a kickass internship under their belt. Will the demand for the D-Plan rise? I'm willing to put my money on it. Will the college's motives be achieved? Something tells me it will.
2009-04-28
01:23:48
Wrt the alumni. I don't buy the assumption that it will completely alienate the alumni base. Clearly, people are divided on the issue here - I don't see why the alumni wouldn't think the same way.
Some could see the college moving in a positive direction while the others could see it moving the wrong way... You win some, you lose some.
Also, whether the college will lose donations (which I doubt) is the college's headache. As a student, I don't see why it shouldn't be implemented (not to say that I don;t care about the donations - it clearly affect every student a lot more than we can see it, but like I said before (though I cannot statistically back it up), I don't see the donations drying up any more than the current dry spell we're seeing...
2009-04-28
01:25:15
Sorry about the typos :p
*don't
*affects
(yes, I'm OCD)
2009-04-28
02:05:00
Woah, I actually wasn't attacking Sasi, at all. I agree with him.
2009-04-28
09:32:16
With regards to Sasi and these "choice people", you realize you can already get an internship whenever you want - any time of year in fact. The college is more than happy to let you take a semester or even a year off. Sure, it's not the "conventional" path, but is by no means an onerous process.
Perhaps CSC is not currently suited for those types of school year internships, but that seems like a minor change. You pro D-plan people might say that this places an undue burden on students. Shocking! Students would be treated as responsible for there own education and getting the real world experience they want. If students are too weak to get beyond social norms about gap years or to get an school year internship without the schools expressly pushing them into it, then they have no business being at CMC.
2009-04-29
10:33:04
I think they mean 'choice with incentives' - to accommodate both the students and 'the pamela'...
Never mind...
2009-04-28
12:11:02
Would the mandatory semester off be an issue for athletes, at all?
2009-04-28
12:34:07
As an old alumnus, I live in a mystical past where educating students to be leaders in business and government was the CMC’s passion. When the December report on the D-plan comes out, it should address some important CMC educational issues. But first, a few reasons which strike me as bad reasons to adopt the D-plan.
1. To be more Ivy League
2. To make a million bucks
3. To add 150 students
CMC founder and first President, George C.S. Benson, starting writing in the 1970's about the dangers of wide spread corruption and incompetence in American business and government. He saw a CMC-type education as the solution to these problems. I did not see that the D-plan would solve any CMC educational issues. Before someone proposes solutions, it is best to have identified the problems.
The article’s first line declares that Gann asked Hess to look into the benefits of the D-plan. Maybe the article fails to adequately explain Gann’s thinking, but if there is no problem to solve or no particular pre-identified goal to achieve, then the school must have no sense of direction.
The test of this D-plan, which has many indicia of gimmickery, is whether it focuses on improving the education of CMCers so that they avoid the pitfalls of conclusionary and simplistic thinking and they do not fall prey to foolishness like Credit Default Swaps. From my long distance view, the manner in which the D-plan seems to have been presented is vague, disoriented, -- an answer in search of a question.
Again as a grouchy senior, to my mind the educational problem at CMC is that the school fails to teach students how to think, how to analyze.
One does not blame the patient if the doctor blotches the operation. It is not the role of CMCers to educate themselves. Youth has many virtues, but a long range perspective on life is not one of them. In my experience, too many CMCers get by with simplistic, conclusionary thinking. It is the responsibility of the of the elderly, and hopefully pre-senile, alumni to ask that CMC articulate an educational vision that doesn’t revolve around $600 Million or more students.
How can we judge whether the D-plan takes CMC forward when we don’t know where we’re going?
2009-04-28
15:50:32
'Woah, I actually wasn’t attacking Sasi, at all. I agree with him.'
Ok. My bad. I'm used to seeing you attack everyone -- even if you agree with them.
What about career services? What have you got against them?
2009-04-28
17:46:00
This is an awful plan...
1. My summer between sophomore and junior year was like the best time of my life. I would not want to lose that. Between Freshman and Sophomore year you don't have your shit figured out to do anything cool and so you would be left with only 1 college summer to do something cool. A lot of people end up doing some competitive intershippy thing then (between junior and senior year) and that's not that fun. We need that summer!
2. Summer in claremont would be awful... too sweaty, few classes to choose from (no 5C's)
3. Don't you guys get it, you would not be ALLOWED to go to school for your full junior year. If the plan did not REQUIRE people to leave, then it would not work. I don't get whether you are allowed to study abroad then or not, but it seems like no from the description.
4. So basically we have to give up a normal good semester and replace it with a semester in hot sweaty Claremont with only a few classes offered and we lose the best summer of our lives. I VOTE NO!!!!
2009-04-28
20:20:04
I just enrolled this week after visiting CMC a second time and I honestly can say I probably wouldn't have enrolled if Claremont followed this "D-Plan" scheduling structure. It appears that this would throw a wrench into a (seemingly) perfectly functioning machine. I think CMC needs to tread very lightly - I didn't apply to Dartmouth... I applied to CMC.
2009-04-29
15:55:18
It comes down to choice, sure there is value in such a plan, and sure it could help students land jobs. But, ultimately following a D-Plan takes away choice. Students have reasons to live on campus all 4 years; so many interesting classes, year-long commitments, friends, sports, special majors, and so forth. . Admittedly, I do not know all the details about this plan, but it seems that it makes sense to give CMCers a choice. Give the option of semester in DC, Study Abroad, or a semester-long internship. Knowing CMCers, those who want to take advantage of it will do so. As it is, we have about 160 students expecting to go off-campus next year. It is surprising that between the 5Cs we are not able to put together a few popular classes that the Colleges can offer. If CMC gave me the option to taking a semester off and doing an internship (while getting credit), I would have taken full advantage of it. My guess is that at least 30 others would do the same.
D-Plan might work for Dartmouth, but CMC is unique and intimate, as it is, it is hard to work out your 4 year schedule, why mandate a semester away. If we intend to grow our school in a sustainable way, we need an C-Plan, for our CMC.
2009-04-30
00:48:13
I don't think we should be so quick to hate on the D-plan. I applied to Darmouth and CMC... got into both. I chose CMC not because it didn't have the D-plan but because of location and size. My cousin goes to Dartmouth and said being on campus with his class was one of the best summers of his life. The school would have to think about housing students in dorms with A/C and things like that yes, but overall I think it'd be pretty cool to spend a summer with your friends on campus. you get a unique opportunity to do an internship at another time of year as well.
And I don't think the point of this is to become more like an Ivy League at all.
The main issues that would need to be addressed include what two sport atheletes woud do. Also, I think it interesting if CMC considered the semester you go abroad to be the semester you take off from CMC if you want. It would be a personal choice.
Also, the reason it works well at Dartmouth is because it is on the quarter system so that issue would need to be looked at.
but by having the D-plan it wouldn't make a CMC education worse at all.
2009-04-30
11:32:29
If CMC had implemented this plan when I was a freshman, I would never have been able to attend this school. There is a very small but still significant number of students on this campus who are part of the ROTC programs. After your freshman and sophomore years you are REQUIRED to attend four weeks of military training each summer. You don't attend = you don't commission. I would like to see Pam Gann try to tell a four star general that a couple of cadets can't attend Field Training because they have to stay on campus and complete their coursework. This would effectively eliminate all the ROTC cadets from enrolling at CMC, because it's not like they could take four weeks off of school and still get good grades, and they also can't not go to FT (Sorry for the double negative, but it works here).
Also, I would HATE to be stuck in Claremont over the summer. You would be stuck taking a few select courses (Has anyone read the course list Pitzer puts out for their summer sessions? No thank you), and I would resent taking classes and trying to think when it's 100 degrees outside. Sure the idea sounds good in theory, but there are too many logistical issues with it. Claremont is not, and hopefully never will be, Dartmouth. If I had wanted to go there, I would have applied. I think CMC is definitely progressing away from its' original goals, and I don't think thats a good thing.