Comments on: CMC? Or Wikipedia University? http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university The Official Student Publication of Claremont McKenna College Tue, 22 May 2012 03:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: CMC Silicon Valley Trip: Monday – Kevin Burke http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-21441 CMC Silicon Valley Trip: Monday – Kevin Burke Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:24:51 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-21441 [...] out that you don’t learn much in a liberal arts college except “how to think.” I would not even argue that much. Robert was, however, the social chair at CMC. Being a social chair is excellent preparation for a [...] [...] out that you don’t learn much in a liberal arts college except “how to think.” I would not even argue that much. Robert was, however, the social chair at CMC. Being a social chair is excellent preparation for a [...]

]]> By: Old Timer http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-17311 Old Timer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:49:50 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-17311 Going to a four year university, and a highly ranked one at that, shows initiative, motivation, and the ability to finish what you started. College today is a signal of all these things to potential employers. Going to CMC is a sign of money, prestige, and your willingness to pay i.e. the value, you as an individual place on a good college education. Not just any college gets the job recruiters we get here. It's a perk, and they keep coming because as I said, graduating from college, especially CMC, is a signal to employers of your personal goals and acheivements, and your desire to learn and be successful. Going to a four year university, and a highly ranked one at that, shows initiative, motivation, and the ability to finish what you started. College today is a signal of all these things to potential employers. Going to CMC is a sign of money, prestige, and your willingness to pay i.e. the value, you as an individual place on a good college education. Not just any college gets the job recruiters we get here. It’s a perk, and they keep coming because as I said, graduating from college, especially CMC, is a signal to employers of your personal goals and acheivements, and your desire to learn and be successful.

]]> By: Old Timer http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-49000 Old Timer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:49:00 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-49000 Going to a four year university, and a highly ranked one at that, shows initiative, motivation, and the ability to finish what you started. College today is a signal of all these things to potential employers. Going to CMC is a sign of money, prestige, and your willingness to pay i.e. the value, you as an individual place on a good college education. Not just any college gets the job recruiters we get here. It's a perk, and they keep coming because as I said, graduating from college, especially CMC, is a signal to employers of your personal goals and acheivements, and your desire to learn and be successful. Going to a four year university, and a highly ranked one at that, shows initiative, motivation, and the ability to finish what you started. College today is a signal of all these things to potential employers. Going to CMC is a sign of money, prestige, and your willingness to pay i.e. the value, you as an individual place on a good college education. Not just any college gets the job recruiters we get here. It’s a perk, and they keep coming because as I said, graduating from college, especially CMC, is a signal to employers of your personal goals and acheivements, and your desire to learn and be successful.

]]> By: Angela Vazquez http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-17298 Angela Vazquez Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:08:31 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-17298 Having an experience at a top liberal arts college and a top research university has made me see the benefits of my undergraduate experience in all of the stated areas, including "learning how to think." These benefits maybe be watered down at large universities or professional programs, although not entirely erased, by a large, often disconnected and segregated student body, low accountability, and a wider distribution of academic backgrounds and abilities. However, liberal arts colleges are at disadvantage in terms of academic and cultural diversity and the advantages to working in the "real world" as opposed to the sheltered homogenous world of living on campus. Then again, higher levels of homogeneity may contribute to the high levels of academic competition, as the urge to differentiate fosters student ingenuity and increases overall achievement across the student body. Having an experience at a top liberal arts college and a top research university has made me see the benefits of my undergraduate experience in all of the stated areas, including “learning how to think.” These benefits maybe be watered down at large universities or professional programs, although not entirely erased, by a large, often disconnected and segregated student body, low accountability, and a wider distribution of academic backgrounds and abilities. However, liberal arts colleges are at disadvantage in terms of academic and cultural diversity and the advantages to working in the “real world” as opposed to the sheltered homogenous world of living on campus. Then again, higher levels of homogeneity may contribute to the high levels of academic competition, as the urge to differentiate fosters student ingenuity and increases overall achievement across the student body.

]]> By: Angela Vazquez http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-48999 Angela Vazquez Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:08:00 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-48999 Having an experience at a top liberal arts college and a top research university has made me see the benefits of my undergraduate experience in all of the stated areas, including "learning how to think." These benefits maybe be watered down at large universities or professional programs, although not entirely erased, by a large, often disconnected and segregated student body, low accountability, and a wider distribution of academic backgrounds and abilities. However, liberal arts colleges are at disadvantage in terms of academic and cultural diversity and the advantages to working in the "real world" as opposed to the sheltered homogenous world of living on campus. Then again, higher levels of homogeneity may contribute to the high levels of academic competition, as the urge to differentiate fosters student ingenuity and increases overall achievement across the student body. Having an experience at a top liberal arts college and a top research university has made me see the benefits of my undergraduate experience in all of the stated areas, including “learning how to think.” These benefits maybe be watered down at large universities or professional programs, although not entirely erased, by a large, often disconnected and segregated student body, low accountability, and a wider distribution of academic backgrounds and abilities. However, liberal arts colleges are at disadvantage in terms of academic and cultural diversity and the advantages to working in the “real world” as opposed to the sheltered homogenous world of living on campus. Then again, higher levels of homogeneity may contribute to the high levels of academic competition, as the urge to differentiate fosters student ingenuity and increases overall achievement across the student body.

]]> By: Kevin Burke http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-17291 Kevin Burke Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:47:21 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-17291 Perhaps the goal of a liberal arts education is to teach students how to think, but if one is only interested in learning how to think, it's possible to do that for much cheaper than $50,000. For the cost of an Internet connection I can read the opinions, arguments and counter-arguments of hundreds of economists, policy makers, and writers. I can dive into the comments section and learn to argue well, because sloppy arguing gets corrected very quickly in the blogosphere. I can start my own blog and post my opinions there. I can go down to the public library and read a lot of new books. Heck, I can navigate to any professors page, download the course material and go through it myself. Most of the stuff we do in class can be replicated for much cheaper on the Internet. Life has never been better for an autodidact. Because we're in school nine months of the year, it's difficult to separate the things we learn from a classroom from the things we learn from just growing older, and gaining more life experience. Maybe if I didn't go to college, I would still be able to call bullshit on a VC at 22 but not able to do it at 18, because I would have had four more years of experience reading people's faces and body language to figure out when I'm being lied to. Unfortunately, we only get to live once - it's impossible to live one life in school and one life out of school and then compare the cognitive abilities of your two selves. Along the same lines I cringe a little when someone says "Going to CMC was the best decision of my life" - how could you know? They'd have to go to every college on their list in turn and figure out where they'd be the happiest. There haven't been any good studies in this area yet. Frank Schmidt and Bob Sutton did <a href="http://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/10/selecting-talent-the-upshot-from-85-years-of-research.html" rel="nofollow">a seminal study</a> on the best ways to hire new employers. Out of nineteen possible explanatory variables, years of education ranked 16th, just ahead of handwriting analysis. Work samples and general intelligence tests ranked first and second. Perhaps the goal of a liberal arts education is to teach students how to think, but if one is only interested in learning how to think, it’s possible to do that for much cheaper than $50,000. For the cost of an Internet connection I can read the opinions, arguments and counter-arguments of hundreds of economists, policy makers, and writers. I can dive into the comments section and learn to argue well, because sloppy arguing gets corrected very quickly in the blogosphere. I can start my own blog and post my opinions there. I can go down to the public library and read a lot of new books. Heck, I can navigate to any professors page, download the course material and go through it myself. Most of the stuff we do in class can be replicated for much cheaper on the Internet. Life has never been better for an autodidact.

Because we’re in school nine months of the year, it’s difficult to separate the things we learn from a classroom from the things we learn from just growing older, and gaining more life experience. Maybe if I didn’t go to college, I would still be able to call bullshit on a VC at 22 but not able to do it at 18, because I would have had four more years of experience reading people’s faces and body language to figure out when I’m being lied to. Unfortunately, we only get to live once – it’s impossible to live one life in school and one life out of school and then compare the cognitive abilities of your two selves. Along the same lines I cringe a little when someone says “Going to CMC was the best decision of my life” – how could you know? They’d have to go to every college on their list in turn and figure out where they’d be the happiest. There haven’t been any good studies in this area yet.

Frank Schmidt and Bob Sutton did a seminal study on the best ways to hire new employers. Out of nineteen possible explanatory variables, years of education ranked 16th, just ahead of handwriting analysis. Work samples and general intelligence tests ranked first and second.

]]> By: Kevin Burke http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-48998 Kevin Burke Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:47:00 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-48998 Perhaps the goal of a liberal arts education is to teach students how to think, but if one is only interested in learning how to think, it's possible to do that for much cheaper than $50,000. For the cost of an Internet connection I can read the opinions, arguments and counter-arguments of hundreds of economists, policy makers, and writers. I can dive into the comments section and learn to argue well, because sloppy arguing gets corrected very quickly in the blogosphere. I can start my own blog and post my opinions there. I can go down to the public library and read a lot of new books. Heck, I can navigate to any professors page, download the course material and go through it myself. Most of the stuff we do in class can be replicated for much cheaper on the Internet. Life has never been better for an autodidact. Because we're in school nine months of the year, it's difficult to separate the things we learn from a classroom from the things we learn from just growing older, and gaining more life experience. Maybe if I didn't go to college, I would still be able to call bullshit on a VC at 22 but not able to do it at 18, because I would have had four more years of experience reading people's faces and body language to figure out when I'm being lied to. Unfortunately, we only get to live once - it's impossible to live one life in school and one life out of school and then compare the cognitive abilities of your two selves. Along the same lines I cringe a little when someone says "Going to CMC was the best decision of my life" - how could you know? They'd have to go to every college on their list in turn and figure out where they'd be the happiest. There haven't been any good studies in this area yet. Frank Schmidt and Bob Sutton did <a href="http://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/10/selecting-talent-the-upshot-from-85-years-of-research.html" rel="nofollow">a seminal study</a> on the best ways to hire new employers. Out of nineteen possible explanatory variables, years of education ranked 16th, just ahead of handwriting analysis. Work samples and general intelligence tests ranked first and second. Perhaps the goal of a liberal arts education is to teach students how to think, but if one is only interested in learning how to think, it’s possible to do that for much cheaper than $50,000. For the cost of an Internet connection I can read the opinions, arguments and counter-arguments of hundreds of economists, policy makers, and writers. I can dive into the comments section and learn to argue well, because sloppy arguing gets corrected very quickly in the blogosphere. I can start my own blog and post my opinions there. I can go down to the public library and read a lot of new books. Heck, I can navigate to any professors page, download the course material and go through it myself. Most of the stuff we do in class can be replicated for much cheaper on the Internet. Life has never been better for an autodidact.

Because we’re in school nine months of the year, it’s difficult to separate the things we learn from a classroom from the things we learn from just growing older, and gaining more life experience. Maybe if I didn’t go to college, I would still be able to call bullshit on a VC at 22 but not able to do it at 18, because I would have had four more years of experience reading people’s faces and body language to figure out when I’m being lied to. Unfortunately, we only get to live once – it’s impossible to live one life in school and one life out of school and then compare the cognitive abilities of your two selves. Along the same lines I cringe a little when someone says “Going to CMC was the best decision of my life” – how could you know? They’d have to go to every college on their list in turn and figure out where they’d be the happiest. There haven’t been any good studies in this area yet.

Frank Schmidt and Bob Sutton did a seminal study on the best ways to hire new employers. Out of nineteen possible explanatory variables, years of education ranked 16th, just ahead of handwriting analysis. Work samples and general intelligence tests ranked first and second.

]]> By: Patrick Atwater http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-17285 Patrick Atwater Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:15:39 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-17285 Let me preface this by saying that this is an interesting, thoughtful approach to an old question. But I think you're just wrong. As cute as it may sound, a liberal arts education is about teaching you how to think. You're right that the price of information is rapidly approaching its marginal cost--free. But in such a world is it not the quality analysis that matters? You point to work ethic and networking, which clearly are important, but doesn't quality matter as well as quantity? You say "its not obvious that the things we learn in other classes are useful for later life." I take it you mean non-preprofessional classes. So when you're working as at some sick VC group don't you need to evaluate whether the people pitching you are full of shit? That is say you need to evaluate suspect narratives, something you'd learn in say a lit class. Or when you're brushing up on wikipedia knowledge, isn't it useful to be able to see the normative presuppositions underlying some information? More broadly, isn't the best way to see the structures underneath our discourse to analyze them rigorously in a variety of environments? Doesn't that then necessitate breadth as opposed to depth? Anyway, personally, I'm not smart to learn things like abstract algerbra from wikipedia. Maybe you are, and that's the difference. Let me preface this by saying that this is an interesting, thoughtful approach to an old question. But I think you’re just wrong. As cute as it may sound, a liberal arts education is about teaching you how to think.

You’re right that the price of information is rapidly approaching its marginal cost–free. But in such a world is it not the quality analysis that matters? You point to work ethic and networking, which clearly are important, but doesn’t quality matter as well as quantity? You say “its not obvious that the things we learn in other classes are useful for later life.” I take it you mean non-preprofessional classes. So when you’re working as at some sick VC group don’t you need to evaluate whether the people pitching you are full of shit? That is say you need to evaluate suspect narratives, something you’d learn in say a lit class. Or when you’re brushing up on wikipedia knowledge, isn’t it useful to be able to see the normative presuppositions underlying some information? More broadly, isn’t the best way to see the structures underneath our discourse to analyze them rigorously in a variety of environments? Doesn’t that then necessitate breadth as opposed to depth?

Anyway, personally, I’m not smart to learn things like abstract algerbra from wikipedia. Maybe you are, and that’s the difference.

]]> By: Patrick Atwater http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-48997 Patrick Atwater Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:15:00 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-48997 Let me preface this by saying that this is an interesting, thoughtful approach to an old question. But I think you're just wrong. As cute as it may sound, a liberal arts education is about teaching you how to think. You're right that the price of information is rapidly approaching its marginal cost--free. But in such a world is it not the quality analysis that matters? You point to work ethic and networking, which clearly are important, but doesn't quality matter as well as quantity? You say "its not obvious that the things we learn in other classes are useful for later life." I take it you mean non-preprofessional classes. So when you're working as at some sick VC group don't you need to evaluate whether the people pitching you are full of shit? That is say you need to evaluate suspect narratives, something you'd learn in say a lit class. Or when you're brushing up on wikipedia knowledge, isn't it useful to be able to see the normative presuppositions underlying some information? More broadly, isn't the best way to see the structures underneath our discourse to analyze them rigorously in a variety of environments? Doesn't that then necessitate breadth as opposed to depth? Anyway, personally, I'm not smart to learn things like abstract algerbra from wikipedia. Maybe you are, and that's the difference. Let me preface this by saying that this is an interesting, thoughtful approach to an old question. But I think you’re just wrong. As cute as it may sound, a liberal arts education is about teaching you how to think.

You’re right that the price of information is rapidly approaching its marginal cost–free. But in such a world is it not the quality analysis that matters? You point to work ethic and networking, which clearly are important, but doesn’t quality matter as well as quantity? You say “its not obvious that the things we learn in other classes are useful for later life.” I take it you mean non-preprofessional classes. So when you’re working as at some sick VC group don’t you need to evaluate whether the people pitching you are full of shit? That is say you need to evaluate suspect narratives, something you’d learn in say a lit class. Or when you’re brushing up on wikipedia knowledge, isn’t it useful to be able to see the normative presuppositions underlying some information? More broadly, isn’t the best way to see the structures underneath our discourse to analyze them rigorously in a variety of environments? Doesn’t that then necessitate breadth as opposed to depth?

Anyway, personally, I’m not smart to learn things like abstract algerbra from wikipedia. Maybe you are, and that’s the difference.

]]> By: A Mitch http://cmcforum.com/life/10282009-cmc-or-wikipedia-university#comment-17274 A Mitch Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:04:32 +0000 http://cmcforum.com/?p=7415#comment-17274 Good writing Burke, sorry I had to dominate you in tennis this morning. Good writing Burke, sorry I had to dominate you in tennis this morning.

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